New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

Discussion in 'Research News' started by Hudson, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. Watch Hazel share good news about tinnitus
    1. Bjjwal

      Bjjwal Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Yes I did, as I wanted to make sure I was a suitable candidate for her device and not have false hope.

      As nice as it would have been to have confirmation on this forum, I'd rather get my information from the person who pioneered the device and should know the statistics.
       
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    2. Martin69
      Artistic

      Martin69 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      (Health) Anxiety
      I am not here that often these days.

      What is the roadmap (trials, release dates etc.)?

      When can we expect to have final trial results and "real world" experiences?

      Thanks in advance.
       
    3. Harder Calm
      Frustrated

      Harder Calm Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Stress/TMJ
      There are delays with the trials and the FDA application. In mid-2022 we should know more. Apparently the company Auricle Inc. is being built up in hopes to commercialize the product.

      Furthermore, it seemed they were planning an application to Republic (which supposedly got delayed as well?).

      So I guess you can check again in summer 2022 and hopefully there will be good news by then...
       
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    4. Padraigh Griffin

      Padraigh Griffin Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown/Stress
      As I said before, the best solution here is for a company like Lenire to buy Dr. Shore's device for a suitable price. They have a non-performing product, but great marketing and distribution. A combination of Dr. Shore's device and Lenire might work. Either on their own won't. The synergy is strong.

      I would be hesitant to invest millions in anything tinnitus related when one clinical breakthrough could KILL your product immediately.

      The cure will come, and personally I think it will be through brain interface tech, but hey who am I to predict the future :)
       
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    5. DimLeb

      DimLeb Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      14/03/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Idiopathic Cochleopathy Or Maybe Loud Music
      I really hope it comes sooner, but I believe this would take at least 50 years to become a thing unfortunately...
       
    6. Padraigh Griffin

      Padraigh Griffin Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown/Stress
      No way dude. By 2030 we will be all augmented in some way. Chips in the brain will be routine. If you want one that is. All the gurus are saying it. It will happen.
       
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    7. tokyorequiem

      tokyorequiem Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2000
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      Note that mRNA was previously developed tech that has been repurposed. This group is starting from scratch. I have tinnitus. And I work as a college professor. The speed and direction of research is heavily affected by funding. So COVID-19 is not really a useful comparison.

      Also, professors spend at most 40 percent of their time on research. The rest is teaching, admin. The more senior you get, the more admin there is. But yes, it is likely true, that grading papers are being given precedence over finding a tinnitus cure for some part of the year, every year. :)

      Lastly, if you're being careful, and you want the results peer-reviewed, it's going to be measured in years, not months, unless you're dealing with something like COVID-19.

      All in all folk should respect the work being done here IMHO. They're being careful, and they're operating under funding and time constraints most likely.
       
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    8. Harder Calm
      Frustrated

      Harder Calm Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Stress/TMJ
      Fully agree! 40 % time for research might even be optimistic, but it depends and might be better in the US. For the mRNA vaccinations there already existed several well-funded biotech companies backed up with big pharma companies working exclusively on an existing technique for a while, even though they could not commercialize it before COVID-19.

      Unfortunately, for tinnitus we are still far away from this. Of course it is just frustrating to see how slow the progress with tinnitus is, but we must be glad some researchers still pursue this (despite the little public funding and attention they get) and don't just give up on it at all and turn to possibly easier and more lucrative things. It is a tough career choice to work on a condition that has tormented mankind for ages, but is still today in our modern age hardly even measurable/diagnosable by doctors (my ENT literally told me after the hearing test when seeing my perfect audiogram that today I have no tinnitus on the day after what felt like a night with a chainsaw in the ears - and there are certainly many similar stories on ENTs here...).

      So it's high risk/high gain, for a cure they will get fame and money, but how likely is that? It might be as well just a useless career spend for nothing while your fellows working on cancer (or whatever) make a fortune... So if you look at it from a career-perspective, only few will take this risk, and if they do it's believable that they actually do care about tinnitus sufferers to some extent (or even have it themselves), and despite things going so slowly let's not blame them but be grateful they are doing it and support it (studies, donations, awareness etc.) as well as we can.
       
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    9. Harder Calm
      Frustrated

      Harder Calm Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Stress/TMJ
      I get the point, but one can also see it from this perspective: If Dr. Shore is not simply selling her technology to Lenire or trying to "cash in" otherwise, and is even building up a company without an FDA approval yet, it is likely that she is convinced that the treatment is effective and expects to obtain FDA approval, and also optimistic to beat Lenire despite their (preliminary) advantages you mentioned. It's simple business: If you have little to offer, you just try to sell it somehow, if you have something great in store, you want to earn all the reward yourself! I know, maybe I just want to make myself hope... But why else should she want to do something as risky? After people got so sceptical with Lenire, people won't buy just another Lenire, so I expect the ssuccessof Auricle will really depend on the FDA approval.
       
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    10. OptimusPrimed
      Spaced

      OptimusPrimed Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma - Repeated gun blasts
      I believe Dr. Shore’s overactive DCN theory is in the right ball park because my tinnitus is noise induced and the only things that give me temporary relief are neuromodulation, high doses of depressant drugs or long, hot showers where the water strikes the back of my head for many minutes. I get temporary relief from these things, I think her and the others could be onto something.
       
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    11. Padraigh Griffin

      Padraigh Griffin Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown/Stress
      I think she is too. Let’s all think positive! Plus I’m having a terrible tinnitus day. My tinnitus is myogenic and I’m having surgeries but I also think my fusiform cells are having a daily party in the DCN. I must have 2/3 types of tinnitus.

      I emailed Dr. Shore asking if there was any chance she’d accept international patients for her clinical trial. She responded within hours. Just a testament to her respect for each individual experiencing tinnitus. Unfortunately the answer was no but she made a CBT recommendation.

      The fact she responded makes her a legend. Nice lady. Let’s get it over the line now!

      I was convinced that the somatic modulation of my tinnitus was linked to the hyperactivity in the DCN. Dr. Shore’s trial target somatosensory tinnitus. I recently had my middle ears muscles sectioned and the ability to modulate my tinnitus on the operated ear has vanished or at least diminished significantly. There might be a link here somewhere. I must email Dr. Shore again as my case is quite unique.
       
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    12. R0B

      R0B Member

      Location:
      Seattle
      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I was curious about the FDA approval process.

      Specifically, I was wondering if this is true - Since Lenire has already applied for FDA approval and is first in line (ahead of the University of Michigan), does that mean that if they are approved first then it will make it easier/faster for subsequent devices that rely on similar technology (bimodal I think it's called) to be approved?

      I guess my thinking is that if there is some precedence in the technology it would make the approval process quicker.
       
    13. Gb3

      Gb3 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sshl
      Of course.
       
    14. IntotheBlue03

      IntotheBlue03 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Cervical/TBD
      Tinnitus newbie here.

      Does anyone have any of the clinical trial results/pre-clinical trial results of Dr. Susan Shore’s device? I can’t seem to locate anything and was wondering outside of Susan’s very impressive academic background and the rigorousness of the trials why there is so much confidence in it.

      Thanks so much and forgive my ignorance.
       
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    15. DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      30/12/13
      Specially timed signals ease tinnitus symptoms in test aimed at condition’s root cause

      I have followed Dr. Susan Shore since my tinnitus onset in 2013. I believe her device for some subsets of tinnitus has a lot of potential.

      We have a poster (@linearb) on here who has participated in the earlier trial, and has reported that the device did reduce his tinnitus and the effects (from memory) persisted for 2 weeks? (Correct me if I am wrong).

      @Hazel has announced that Dr. Susan Shore will be participating in the Tinnitus Talk Podcast next year once her trial ends.
       
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    16. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 16 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      Auditory-somatosensory bimodal stimulation desynchronizes brain circuitry to reduce tinnitus in guinea pigs and humans
       
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    17. OptimusPrimed
      Spaced

      OptimusPrimed Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma - Repeated gun blasts
      Her results were positive, that is about all you need to know. Between her work and a handful of others, they are finding that bimodal stimulation of nerves that connect to the dorsal cochlear nucleus (mainly the trigeminal and vagus) is having a reductive or positive effect on the tinnitus of sufferers. Mainly somatosensory tinnitus, and subjective tinnitus. The theory is that the fusiform cells in the dorsal cochlear nucleus are overactive and respond to a lack of signal from the cochlea following auditory damage. They react by over-reacting, be it through hyperactivity or be it through mal-adaptive plasticity...basically signals from the somatic system (muscles) are picked up by the DCN and passed on as phantom sound - tinnitus. The brain hates gaps, so when it lacks data input from the cochlea it tries to fill those gaps.
       
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    18. IntotheBlue03

      IntotheBlue03 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Cervical/TBD
      @OptimusPrimed, thank you kindly! I did read some subjects we recruited based on head and neck maneuvers that altered their tinnitus. Curious if anyone can verify if “jaw clenching” that increases tinnitus is known to be somatic in nature? I keep locating this information in random posts across Tinnitus Talk.
       
    19. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 16 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      Yup.
       
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    20. DimLeb

      DimLeb Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      14/03/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Idiopathic Cochleopathy Or Maybe Loud Music
      I wonder what happens if you have multi-tone tinnitus and some sounds are affected by jaw and neck movements, while others are not.

      Maybe the device would only help the first ones? I really hope the device helps the majority of it!
       
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    21. IntotheBlue03

      IntotheBlue03 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Cervical/TBD
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    22. DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      30/12/13
      Yes that is somatic.
       
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    23. IntotheBlue03

      IntotheBlue03 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Cervical/TBD
      @DebInAustralia, @AfroSnowman, @OptimusPrimed:

      I just wanted to send a personal thank you for all of the swift and informative responses. I don’t want to take up too much space in such an important forum but as a newbie who’s moving through the “grief” process at the moment I am extremely thankful and amazed at the community and resources everyone has put together here.

      Wishing you all a peaceful and restful evening from the East Coast.
       
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    24. DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      30/12/13
      You're welcome.

      We're all in this together. You're not alone.
       
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    25. Survivor234
      Hurting

      Survivor234 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise-induced/Headphones
      Hi. I was in an email conversation with Dr. Susan Shore and was told that her device works with noise-induced tinnitus as well (I thought it was only tinnitus caused by TMJ and the like since the clinical trials asked for participants whose tinnitus can be changed with a head or jaw movement).

      I have responded back by asking to what degree does it work since a minimum amount of hearing loss was required for participation in the clinical trials as well (i.e. "No greater than a mild hearing loss up to 6 kHz, and no greater than a moderate hearing loss at the tinnitus frequencies").

      I haven't received a response yet (I just responded this morning when I woke up).
       
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    26. 2noist

      2noist Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/02/2015
      Why is it so hard for people to understand what somatic tinnitus is? :rolleyes:

      Up to 80% of tinnitus sufferers (including noise-induced tinnitus) can modulate their tinnitus pitch and/or loudness by jaw and/or neck movements. And that ability is considered somatic tinnitus.

      Dr. Shore's device can work for a lot of people then.
       
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    27. Survivor234
      Hurting

      Survivor234 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise-induced/Headphones
      Yes, that is what I meant. I thought Shore's device could only work with somatic tinnitus but I wanted to know if it would work for noise-induced tinnitus. Considering that the device targets tinnitus-causing neurons, that somewhat makes sense but I am still surprised that it works.

      As for noise-induced tinnitus sufferers modulating their pitch with their jaw or neck, that's a surprise to me! I can't do that. My tinnitus is constant. I also only recently realized I had tinnitus so forgive me if I am ignorant.
       
    28. Survivor234
      Hurting

      Survivor234 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise-induced/Headphones
      She responded to my email with this:

      "Next summer"? It looks to me that next summer is when they'll start getting ready to commercialize the machine or at least will become public about many things pertaining to it.
       
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    29. IntotheBlue03

      IntotheBlue03 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Cervical/TBD
      @2noist, this is actually news to me, regarding the 80% can modulate their tinnitus including noise induced stat. Is there any further studies you can point me to regarding this? I’m new to tinnitus as well so forgive the ignorance.
       
    30. Harder Calm
      Frustrated

      Harder Calm Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Stress/TMJ
      No worries!

      In the experiments with the guinea pigs, they indeed got noise-induced tinnitus and for them the device apparently also helped in the studies. So even though somatic tinnitus is the main target that is being studied in the trials, there is hope it will help beyond. Furthermore, I think it was posted here before that some people can have somatic tinnitus but they don't know because they don't know how to modulate it.

      So altogether, "noise-induced" does not exclude "somatic".
       
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