Tinnitus, TMJ, Headaches, Neck Pain, Facial Pain, etc. — Possible Treatment

Discussion in 'Alternative Treatments and Research' started by erik, Jul 23, 2012.

    1. kelpiemsp
      Swamped

      kelpiemsp Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      birth/ recent spike 2/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Born with ETD, several acoustic traumas, most recently ETD
      Thanks! I initially went to boynton at the U and all they could do was make an expensive mouth piece and prescribe flexeril. I was not happy with it.
       
    2. just1morething
      Benevolent

      just1morething Member Benefactor

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      barotrauma, noise exposure, TMJ, neck?
    3. kelpiemsp
      Swamped

      kelpiemsp Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      birth/ recent spike 2/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Born with ETD, several acoustic traumas, most recently ETD
      @just1morething that was dynamite! Thanks. I am very excited to visit them.
       
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    4. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing and now somatic T dental work
      @brummygirl We had talked by PM, but I'm finally got the attention of some cervical spine trauma specialists who appear to really know about this stuff. I have mentioned an article 'Chapter 4 Cervical Spine Trauma' before, but I didn't take that article or other Chapter 4 Cervical Spine articles serious enough. Been told to refer to Chapter 4 on what causes tinnitus when dealing with the cervical spine. Much what I listed above in #1135 is a cause, but been told if you have cervical tinnitus then vertebral arteries and deep cervical veins are always involved. Often from testing this isn't known.

      Vertebral arteries and deep cervical veins have trauma Sensory -DCN connections. The trauma to these veins and arteries has association to the c spine itself. The c spine could straighten or extend just by 1 or 2 mm. This can effect muscles and the TMJ/D complex.

      My treatment will be conservative. Ice to the neck for 10-20 minutes a few times a day. Correct head posture. After an initial period of ice therapy when soreness starts to lessen than apply gentle exercise to SCMs. Doctor Jay Hobbs has a video with link on TT for SCMs. Attention to TMJ/D therapy, exercise as we discuss above, but most important is for me to relax the jaw and mouth naturally. Then at a later time to correct straightness or curve in spine if at all possible and not by adjustments for me. Then gentle exercise for other neck muscles. I'll will always have physical tinnitus. Just too much going on in my case. Just trying to lower it by a small degree.
       
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    5. Adam McGovern

      Adam McGovern Member

      Location:
      Ont, Ca.
      Tinnitus Since:
      Early 1990
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I have been thinking.
      I as well have thought more and more of some of these areas being involved in causing my T.
      As having head, neck traumas in my lifetime as well as forms and spouts of Taj, and back injuries. Having one leg shorter then the other due to a compound fracture of my left leg when getting run over by a car at age 8, as well the reduced known birth defect of spinal bifta.
      I will be looking into this more in depth in the coming months.
      The trigger point therapy will be very useful in trying to self diagnosis . In hopes of finding positive aggression going forward.
      Cheers and thank you for sharing all this useful information.
      Regards,
      Adam
       
    6. Codaz

      Codaz Member

      Oostendorp RA, Bakker I, Elvers H, Mikolajewska E, Michiels S, De Hertogh W, et al. Cervicogenic somatosensory tinnitus: An indication for manual therapy plus education? Part 2: A pilot study. Man Ther. 2016;23:106-13.

      Cervical tinnitus and manual therapy research paper from 2016 with some annotations by me.
       

      Attached Files:

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    7. Lane

      Lane Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic Drug
      Hey @Sjtof,

      Did you ever follow through with your interest in Atlasprofilax? Just ran across these video testimonials on how it worked for three separate people to improve or eliminate their tinnitus. -- I had this procedure done about 10 years ago (before I got tinnitus), and got great benefit from it.

      I've noticed since my tinnitus started in Feb, 2018 from an ototoxic drug, that my neck has gotten much worse. So I'm wondering whether or not my atlas adjustment from all those years ago has held. I expect to get it checked again in the coming weeks.

      AtlasProfilax ..Less Tinnitus


      Atlas Profilax Tinnitus gone...


      Tinnitus still there but more quieter -...
       
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    8. Lane

      Lane Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic Drug
      Hi @Greg Sacramento,

      I can relate to your reference of "advanced whiplash", as I suffered a serious head injury/whiplash at age 15, which severely affected my health and well being ever since. I believe I was most affected by the displacement of my atlas, which seriously "crimped" my cranial nerves.

      I went to many different therapists over the years, trying many different kinds of "techniques". Many helped, but the one that shifted things the most for me--profoundly so--was the atlasprofilax technique I mentioned in my above post. If you have any interest, I can share more about what my improvements were, and where to look for further information.

      Best...
       
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    9. brummygirl
      Cheerful

      brummygirl Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      clenching jaw while weightlifting
      @Lane Apologies for butting in to your conversation with Greg, but my son also has a whiplash-type tinnitus.
      We are currently looking in to the worth of upright MRIs on the CCJ and cervical spine (mixed opinions) but have considered this Atlas work before.
      We have also, incidentally, picked up a hypermobility syndrome/EDS diagnosis on the way - if that rings any bells here?
      I would be very interested to hear more.
      Many thanks
       
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    10. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing and now somatic T dental work
      @Lane Thank you for your kindness in writing to me.

      I had seen an atlasprofilax doctor where I received a consultation and exams after having a neck CT that was ordered. It was concluded that I can't have the drop table treatment to my spine. Besides heart disease I have arteries too close to my c spine.

      On other note, one of my doctors told me this last week that the underlining reason for physical cause tinnitus is toxins and bacteria where they travel from the mouth to anyplace. Most people have toxins and bacteria in their mouths, but it's very hard to detect. Toxins and bacteria from the mouth can weaken neck, facial or jaw complexes or any physical condition that can lead to tinnitus. This doctor gave me about 30 medical links to read in which I have done a first reading. I am totally amazed by this as my education partly centers around physiological / anatomy structure and well being.
       
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    11. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing and now somatic T dental work
      Hi Shirley. For now, have your son be careful doing exercises. Always thinking about the both of you. Write me OK - when you have time.
       
      Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    12. housemzk

      housemzk Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Jan 18, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      concussions, wisdom teeth removal, neck, jaw, stress, noise?
      @Greg Sacramento - Truly fascinating stuff. Can you share some of those websites? I've wondered about toxins and/or bacteria leading to future health issues well before I ended up with unilateral tinnitus. I guess I'm not surprised that there's a tinnitus connection there.
       
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    13. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing and now somatic T dental work
      @housemzk In my above post instead of saying the underlying cause, I should have said one of the underlying causes... Bacteria and toxicity from dental care or trapped from placement of an implant is common. This can weaken structures causing TMJ or weaken neck muscles that can lead to tinnitus as an underlying cause. Also click the highlighted blue HERE within the article. I'll post more links later.

      http://www.drerwin.com/article_10_pain/
       
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    14. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing and now somatic T dental work
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    15. Lane

      Lane Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic Drug
      Hi @Greg Sacramento,

      Thanks for posting the link to that article. When I read about their using a "facial nerve block below the external auditory canal", it reminded me of another thread on this forum, where a man got remarkable relief from using nerve blocks. In case you're not aware of it, here's a link:

      Had Treatment to Kill My Pulsatile Tinnitus Once and for All... And This Is the Result
       
    16. Lane

      Lane Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic Drug
      Hi Greg and Brummygirl,

      Greg, what you describe sounds quite different from the atlasprofilax I'm familiar with--and which helped me so much. I went back to an online post I made a while back, where I gave a pretty thorough description of it. I'll go ahead and paste it below, so you and Brummygirl can compare what you have in mind with what I'm trying to describe.

      Something you may find interesting, is that when I visited my regular chiropractor after getting the atlasprofilax technique done, he took one look at me and exclaimed, "What have you been up to? You're whole facial structure has changed!" -- My height increased by about a 1/4" of an inch--which is not an uncommon occurrence. My whole chest cavity felt like it had been lifted as well. It was a very subjective feeling, but it felt like it had raised up like 2-3 inches or so. -- Had lots of other improvements as well.

      The last I heard, there's only one chiropractor in the U.S. that does this technique, and he lives in Minneapolis (Dr. Brian Elijah, ND, DC). I met him when I took my sister and nephew to see him. He mentioned to me it's very frustrating for him to go to Chiropractic conventions, where he often feels some sort of compulsion to stand up, and tell his colleagues that "they've got it all wrong". But he knows they're not ready to hear it. As I recall, he considers the atlasprofilax technique to be the foundation upon which all other techniques should be based.

      On the way home from the visit, both my sister and nephew marveled by how much clearer their sinuses were feeling. Given that, I can see where greater energy flows in the sinus areas could positively affect any tinnitus symptoms originating from that area.

      For me, I believe I got the greatest improvement from having chronic pressure released from my vagus nerve. I just this past week learned there's an "auricular branch of the vagus nerve". So I now have a better understanding of how somebody getting the atlasprofilax which relieves even a minimal amount of pressure on the vagus nerve could have it positively affect tinnitus--such as in the above videos I posted.

      Just to mention, there are other practitioners--such as cranial sacral therapists--who do this technique as well. The practitioner who did mine (Michael Hane) works out of the N. California area (Grass Valley). My understanding is there's only about a dozen practitioners in the U.S., but about 200-300 in Europe. I think it originated in Switzerland in the 1990's.

      Greg, a good friend of mine has a chronic carotid artery problem, which I think she once had surgery on. She was warned to never have any kind of chiropractic treatment. So she was very hesitant about doing this, but decided to watch how it was done. Being very intuitive, she quickly discerned that it was really quite safe, and decided to have it done. She was also got a lot of benefit from having it done.

      Here's the AP description:


      Atlas Profilax practitioners prefer to use the word "repositioning" the atlas when referring to what they actually do. Michael Hane explained to me that repositioning the atlas is somewhat akin to moving a boulder. Not particularly easy to "position" into place, but once it's done, it's fairly difficult for it to move back out of place. Apparently, this is totally different from a chiropractic technique, which may manipulate or adjust the atlas, but doesn't reposition it. Thus, there's an easy tendency for a chiropractic atlas adjustment to not hold, because the atlas stays in it's misaligned position.

      There's never any kind of "pop" when doing the AP as there often is with Chiropractic. Brief Description: A small vibrating tool with a soft felt cover is gently pressed up against the atlas (behind the ear). It normally takes a few minutes of methodical vibrating and gentle pressure to finally allow the atlas (and associated ligaments) to "let go" of their chronic position. Michael says it's become quite easy for him to detect when this "letting go" occurs and the atlas slides back into place. There's apparently two "pins" in the skull area that then keep it locked into place.

      I feel the AP repositioning is actually far safer than traditional chiropractic "popping" techniques, and more effective than the gentle NUCCA techniques (I did NUCCA for many years, getting relief, but always needing regular adjustments). I'm not trying to criticize these techniques, because they do work. They just didn't work for me longer term. I should add however, that AP didn't "cure" all my structural ailments. I still continue to look for various techniques to address and help stabilize my structural issues. Nasal Specific and Egoscue techniques are high on my list of things that have helped me considerably.

      I decided to do the AP realizing it may do nothing for me, but felt the risk of not trying it was greater than the risk of paying $250 for something that may very well help me. --- Over a period of several decades, I spent thousands of dollars for various kinds of chiropractic and physical therapy for chronic neck and back pain. The AP ended up doing far more for me than all this other care put together. So in my case, the one-time fee of $250 feels like a relative bargain price. Another nice thing is that if another AP "repositioning" may be needed, there's NEVER an extra charge after the initial $250.​
       
      Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
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    17. Lane

      Lane Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic Drug
      Thught I'd share a bit more on my experiences with atlasprofilax. Some things I mentioned earlier, but some things I didn't--which may give you a more complete picture of how the AP changed my physiology so profoundly. -- Again, this is a copy and paste of an online post I made several years ago.
      -
      I thought I would share a few other things about my own “physical” reactions. I went for a walk within a half hour of getting my atlas aligned, and felt like I was walking like a “crooked dog”; the kind that trots along looking like it’s out of alignment. I thought for sure I was doing the same, but then noticed that I was walking perfectly straight. It was then that I realized how I had been walking “crooked” for so many years, and came to accept it as my normal gait.

      As I walked in the following days, it felt like my chest and diaphragm were "pulled" up much higher in my body. Even Alea noticed how much “taller” I seemed to be walking as we strolled along. A short while after I measured myself for the first time in years, and contrary to most people getting shorter over time, I was actually a 1/4" taller. Others who have received the AP have reported the same.

      Now a bit of the downside: I woke up the next morning with a horrible headache, and a brain fog that was about as thick as I had ever experienced. It felt like I was in a daze that I’d never really experienced before. So I called Michael, and he recommended a homeopathic remedy. The homeopathic remedy helped, but the headache hung on for several days, but became tolerable by the end of the first day. It was also during the next several days that the heavy dense brain fog lifted. And after it lifted, more clarity came into my brain and thinking than I had prior to doing the AP.

      I also noticed in the following days that I felt much hungrier than normal. When I sat down to eat, it felt almost sort of “primal” as I seemed to dig in or devour my food in a much different way. I felt sort of “piggish” as I ate, but I also noticed that I didn’t really eat more than I normally did. It was just the experience of eating that was so much different.

      Here’s what I believe happened. The 12 major cranial nerves exit the brainstem through the opening in the atlas. If the atlas is out of alignment, these nerves can become impinged, and nerve flow to the rest of the body is inhibited. The vagus nerve is the longest of the cranial nerves, traversing through the TMJ, through the thyroid, the heart, stomach, GI system, and ending in the colon. If these organs/areas aren’t receiving enough nerve energy because of a crimped vagus nerve, they’re not going function properly or efficiently.

      Here’s my theory as to why some people notice significant improvements from AP, and others don’t. — The opening in the atlas through which the cranial nerves go through is different in size from one person to the next. If the opening is large, the atlas can be out of alignment by quite a bit without impinging on the cranial nerves. If the opening is small, only a small alignment can cause significant cranial nerve dysfunction. — A former NFL football player was temporarily paralyzed from a rather insignificant blow, and it was determined that the opening in his atlas was much smaller than normal, which significantly raised his potential for a serious injury. He promptly retired.

      I feel certain most, if not all of my cranial nerves became impinged from a serious head injury/whiplash I experienced at age 15, which corresponded with the decline in my overall health. I am even more certain that at least my vagus nerve was majorly impacted. To have all this pressure relieved from a single treatment felt almost miraculous to me. I can easily see why others wouldn’t have a similar experience, because even if they had a seriously misaligned atlas, they may not have had seriously crimped nerves.​
       
      Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
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    18. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing and now somatic T dental work
      Nerves in the jaw are responsible for some with tinnitus and I think way more than admitted by dentists. The jaw can lead to neck problems (Susan Shore - nerves and muscles) and if it does, then it's a seesaw back and forth. Nerves in the jaw can be violated by the mouth being open too long during dental and this can cause TMJ and clenching.

      Clenching of teeth can cause jaw nerves to become compressed. Dental work itself can cause jaw nerve damage where afterwards bacteria and toxins can settle in the gums. From the gums toxins and bacteria can move anywhere and affect hearing. Dental nerve damage can cause problems anyplace in the entire head.

      It may be wise to check your dental care history if tinnitus was received from a loud noise exposure. For posture problems check on being born by C-Section and if so corrections can be made that may lower tinnitus.

      I say never blame yourself as many of us just don't know the stairway development that is ready the set up cause of our tinnitus.
       
    19. jeannie
      Stressed

      jeannie Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise-induced, Ear Infection, Medication... Who knows?
      Wouldn't an MRI or ct scan show if your atlas is out of alignment?I had those and xrays and it didn't show anything wrong as far as c1 or c2 being messed up. but I went to a nucca and of course it was out .
       
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    20. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing and now somatic T dental work
      @jeannie You are too young to have cervical disc disease or really much of anything else going on (unless TMJ). Maybe a little one sided occipital neuritis causing sensory reactions. This would cause discomfort from the top of your neck to the skull. It would also cause your throat and ear on the same side to show some discomfort. Mostly caused from computer use or reading a book - something where you are lowering your chin or where a person favors a neck posture position to one side. I'm not sure what trigger points are used for this, but I had read several times that many see great T improvement and are even cured if any inflammation that's present disappears from trigger point exercise.
       
    21. jeannie
      Stressed

      jeannie Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise-induced, Ear Infection, Medication... Who knows?
      Greg,yes I have DDD at c5c6. But I'm thinking possible occtipal neuralgia too.
       
    22. Lane

      Lane Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic Drug
      VERY interesting. The following is from the article:

      In this case study we have a patient that developed significant hyperacusis and tinnitus possibly due to multiple medications with tinnitus listed as a side effect. The patient had no relieving factors with persistent tinnitus that affected her ability to sleep on a daily basis. MR-Neurography imaging noted that there was facial nerve irritation as it exits the stylomastoid formen and passes inferior to the external auditory canal which would be consistent with a focal entrapment or irritative syndrome.

      Based on these findings the patient proceeded with an Interventional Open MRI guided facial nerve block below the external auditory canal. Medications utilized for this procedure included Marcaine, Celestone and Hyaluronidase. Immediately post procedure the patient noted a significant improvement in her tinnitus. The patient indicated that on a pain scale with 10 being the worst and 1 being no symptoms her tinnitus had gone from a 10 out of 10 pre-procedure to a 1 out of 10 immediately post-procedure. ​
       
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    23. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing and now somatic T dental work
      @Lane I have many success stories saved, but all took a (A team of doctors) that would take the time and work together. Not only does these stories relate to physical tinnitus, but noise induced T as well.

      One team group for hearing loss said great success rate under six weeks, but only a 25% success over six weeks. They use drugs that I never heard of and they are not mentioned in search here.

      Some that get T from hearing loss/noise exposure have cell or nerve fiber damage and not hair cells. So they check for infection and do highly specialized tests for hidden bacteria. They also use drugs that I never heard of. I don't know who pays for specialized teams where patients are first hospitalized, but I know that health insurance won't always cover the cost.

      http://www.icnr.com/cs/cs_50.html
       
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    24. just1morething
      Benevolent

      just1morething Member Benefactor

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      barotrauma, noise exposure, TMJ, neck?
      Forward head posture caused tinnitus?


      Got tinnitus about 3 years ago, eventually was able to link it to bad posture. I've been staring at laptop screens for 15 years, and now at cell phones in addition. My head was looking down most of the time, and then I realized it wasn't balanced even when normal walking through the streets. Add a challenging life period (young family) and voilà.
      i read a book about pain at some point that contained a good analogy: imagine holding a melon with one hand, arm upright. Now bend the hand forward, and try to hold this for several hours.

      Of course we wouldn't be able for more than a few minutes. The analogy of course being the melon as the head and the arm being the spine. It makes you realize how much muscle work is necessary to keep the head bent forward. In my case the tension went from my neck to the jaw, and the jawbone pressing on the region close to the ear. I first needed to relearn walking like a child, with the head being balanced on top of its center of gravity - one can feel a pretty remarkable effect of tension relief on the neck. Then relearn to keep the jaw relaxed. Then adjust work habits, spend more time walking, less staring down at phone screens. Takes a while.

      This morning I woke up with no tinnitus at all. It sometimes comes back, but then I know what to do.
       
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    25. brummygirl
      Cheerful

      brummygirl Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      clenching jaw while weightlifting
      @just1morething that is such good news! I am absolutely delighted for you. I will let my son with tinnitus know. He is working on this too. :beeranimation:
       
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    26. just1morething
      Benevolent

      just1morething Member Benefactor

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      barotrauma, noise exposure, TMJ, neck?
      Sorry, that is not actually me. I found it.
       
    27. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing and now somatic T dental work
      @just1morething Those words sound familiar, but forward head bending, posture and jaw pressure is bad stuff. How are you really doing - have you improved as above? I never know when you are joking or as they say pulling my neck.
       
    28. just1morething
      Benevolent

      just1morething Member Benefactor

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      barotrauma, noise exposure, TMJ, neck?
      I seem better but I let my head hang over the side of my bed and exercise. I also tried hearing aids and gabapentin plus clonazepam. Not sure which all helped but I definitely have bad posture. I didn't mean to pull on your neck or leg. :)
       
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    29. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing and now somatic T dental work
      @just1morething Are you doing the Mike Mills exercises? You don't have whiplash so those should help. The ones for whiplash and jaw require work. I'm so glad that you are doing better. Now you can go see Brady.
       
    30. just1morething
      Benevolent

      just1morething Member Benefactor

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      barotrauma, noise exposure, TMJ, neck?
      Your pulling my neck/leg now. :) I was in a car accident and probably had whiplash when I was younger. My head cracked the windshield. I never was too smart after that.
       

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