What's Your Opinion on Assisted Suicide?

It's a good topic and yes, it's sensitive . I've read a number of articles that Switzerland is countering they allow physician-assisted suicide. My belief is those who are against it are mostly for religious reasons. Some of those who are for it may be religious but not deeply so.

I've watched the death of all parents and some in-laws (in the U.S.). My father suffered immensely because he fought to live (he wasn't religious). My mom suffered as well but in a different way. My father-in-law was at Sloan-Kettering. The doctor suggested increasing the morphine drip. I was in my mid 30s and knew they were allowing him to die. The rest of the family didn't understand and were going to leave for the night. I stayed (I didn't explain why and no one asked) but they all followed suit. I was up all night and watched him take his last breath. It was pretty peaceful but I heard patients screaming in pain...

We're (my partner and I) are attending meetings here that allow an open discussion with options implied but not spelled out - not yet but we've only just begun. It's taboo and it was amazing how many people came to one I attended. Our age range was probably from our mid 50s and up. There were religious and non-religious people there.

My main concern for the future is physician-assisted suicide may create an underground industry to allow people to die for unethical reasons. But I'm still very much for having the option, whatever it may be. Keeping people alive allows pharms. to peddle their wares and the medical industry to make dough off of us.

 

So, even a couple of centuries ago this German philosopher saw what wasn't changing and remains to this
day. I'm a little surprised by the theologian's quote. I'm glad it's all there except then why hasn't any of this moved
in a positive direction from hedonism and greed - ideals on which our country was founded, I suppose.

 

It used to be available (the kit) but yes, it was removed from the market. It was taking away too much money from the industry here (my belief despite what we're told).

* * * *
To those who are totally against religion and using bible as a guide, religion serves many purposes - hypocritical and real. It gives people comfort and we really need it on this forum and in life. But I can't knock those who are intent on believing in the book. I'm not god and I'm not omnipotent. I can stop people from pushing their views on me (and those on the forum aren't as they're simply expressing their views and I respect that). But those mainly Jehovah Witnesses who come to our door, after I assure them the "No Soliciting" sign at the entrance also applies to them. I can and have been known to hop on my motorcycle to ensure those people are escorted out of our neighborhood by an older woman (lol) and I pretend to call the police.

To the rest of us, have faith ! I'm in NC and the fact that meet-ups are now popping up on end of life planning is astounding considering the political craziness also going on here. Also, if you are looking at physician-assisted states, you have to read about the state's requirements to plan. It's not as simple as going to Colorado for a toke or two as there aren't residency requirements to smoke.

That's my belief. May we all find peace (and true silence) in our own way.

 

I think this is essentially the 'slippery slope' concern. Many laws or lack thereof could be seen in this way. Society will have to monitor it, just like any other thing. Those who abuse must face consequences.

 

I agree 100% except ... I don't think the future controllers of this country will care anymore than the current ones do. I won't give up on fighting for (or at this stage of my life rooting for) physician-assisted or not suicide.

 

Its 'in' to be anti-faith because humanity is getting smarter everyday. We have free access to information. You can go online and learn about anything. People are getting all sides of a story. Internet is a pretty new phenomenon. You can watch documentaries about space, witch is 100000x more interesting then Noah's arc and Mohammed and his flying horse. Religion had it's time. Soon; Christianity, Islam and Judaism will have the same status as Norse, Hellenism, Santeria, Candomble, Vodun and Lucomi. Mere mythology. Nothing more. Then, we stop fight and go to space.

 

I'm proud to write that I'm old enough to have been part of the anti-faith "in" crowd today many moons ago when I was not in with any crowd and anti-faith was very, very tiny here. Meeruf, I think it's so cool that you and other members are here (or we are there) and we represent many countries and many views.

We do have access to information because of the internet. You just have to be careful about the source and I'm sure you are.

I agree it's a myth (hence my sophomore college course selection of, "The bible as a myth"). But it gives the non-radical but religious folks like David (who I truly respect) hope, faith, and focus. I don't want to see than changed because it obviously helps him. It's the radicalization that's in our face that bothers me. For a Jehovah's Witness to not recognize (or admit) they're not soliciting when they're at my door is ludicrous.

I'm watching many documentaries these days and I'm aware it's America and television. How much is true, I'll never know. Religion may have had its time and it's still a force that apparently falsely drives Congress (ooh, the power). Unfortunately, it simultaneously allows hypocrisy (a reason I dropped a Catholic friend of 15 years who had a couple affairs while he was married - he confessed and was forgiven) excuses in Congress and power. I respected his faith but not his affairs until I no longer could tolerate it. He respected my non-belief and I was the one to remind him to hold hands so he could pray before a meal. So, yes, it's falling from grace and people appear to be waking up (sort of).

Drat! If Noah's ark of the covenant isn't real, then the Holy Grail from King Arthur isn't either and I wanted to much to believe in Camelot. (I did but I know it's a myth and a lovely one at that.)

 

You make some good points. I like the idea of high taxes on junk food. With our current so called death penalty, it seems to take at least a decade for an inmate to reach their final destination. It makes no sense IMHO. We have high taxes on cigarettes and alcohol but I don't have any information as to what impact this has had on deterrence. I have a comment about you use of "free". Nothing in life is "free". There are folks writing checks to fund schools and healthcare for sure. Even with a good percentage of taxes coming from the wealthy, it invariably must create a high tax burden on the rest of the population. The US has is free public school PK-12 grade. Students can apply for government funding for college. There are also scholarships available but typically most graduates have student loan debt. There is a good amount of free healthcare available for those who qualify but again medical debt can wipe out a family financially if they experience a major medical issue. Even with insurance, a flight to life ride may not be fully covered and it is typically $60K. OUCH! Most employers offer vacation time for full-time employees as well as family medical leave, maternity leave and sick leave. Most additionally have workman's comp, long term disability, health insurance and life insurance. There are additional benefits in some places (e.g. free onsite daycare, bonuses, free vacations etc..). I have been a public school teacher so I haven't had these particular perks but there are out there.

I have a question about your heath care. Do you feel like you have a good system in place? I have a sister and brother living in Canada. They feel the healthcare is good but make comments about having to wait so long to get into an appointment.

 

Personally, I think it's horribly inequitable and I believe it's done on purpose. Employers are cutting back everything. I'm retired but stay in touch with my neighbors to see how they're holding up. I read and decipher baloney (does that make sense to you - baloney?) about how our economy is doing and know it's not true. I have an older, fairly incapacitated sister ... I don't know what will happen to her. I can only do so much living close to 1000 miles away and she's as stubborn as other family members and is responsible for creating her own sinkhole. I managed to help keep her going but due to my own circumstances, time's running out for me to be able to help her and that totally reflects on the lack of care available as well as her stubbornness. K-12 isn't free at all. Everyone pays school taxes whether we have children or not. People even claim they paid for SS benefits/Medicare and feel it's being ripped from them. But if you look at what we paid in and what we get, circumstance-dependent, my guess is most of us are collecting more than we paid out.

I'm pretty outraged about what the U.S. has done to college/university students. Some scholarships are available but the cost is outrageous and I personally believe it's to widen the gap between the rich and those in the lower soci0-economic classes. Long-term care tends to be a lot less than people think it is and full of holes. When I worked for an insurance/financial company I found out how truly high the cost of insurance was and went home and announced (boom!) we're not getting life insurance . I read the spreadsheet spit out on where the money people pay into it actually goes - mostly to the company. It tends to make more sense to have it when one has children and you pay a lot for it.

I guess I've seen enough of (can I call them truly socialized?) countries where you pay through your nose for the erroneously labelled free stuff. We do, too, just in a different way. Health insurance is a not funny joke to our friends and we're highly aware of what's happening. The supplemental insurance (Medigap to cover 20% of what Medicare doesn't pay) is set by each state and it's excruciatingly high at least in North Carolina. I worry about the next increase. Worrying in life appears to be one of my fortes (but based on reality).

When the foreclosure/mortgage fraud was outted here, the NY Times had an article about an older fellow on dialysis. He told his wife he was going to stop it because that debt would wipe them out. It's true. Believe it or not, that was circa 1999 well before the housing market tanked @2006/2007. The government clearly caters to the wealthy.

Now to bring it all back, so the mods don't shoot me, allowing pot (a different thread) would help bring in business and taxes and relief for us. Allowing suicide, as y'all said, depending on how it's implemented might decrease the amount our government can nab from us. But, there are those gracious states that allow it with conditions. I'm thankful that's happening. In the meantime, we're planning as best we can and fortunately, we can actually do that now. I think if it was allowed, I would've thought about it yesterday and my goal is to outlive my dog (5-7 years) and my partner. By then, I'll collect SS and if I die, she will continue to collect it (and we'll have to marry first and for now, that option is available but we're moving backwards in this country and I'm waiting to see if that shifts into forward gear). I was incapacitated by T during the day yesterday and it soared at night and each time I woke up. But today arrived without a roar after being up from @3:30 am - 5 am then going back to bed and sleeping 2.5 hours more.

 

I wish it was possible. Point is that assisted suicide is not that you sign it but you do it by yourself.

 

@Brianna

Yes, you are right about our taxes supporting "free" education. Those who opt for private education get dinged twice as they have to continue to pay taxes for the public schools as well as tuition costs for the private school. I have some neighbors who take that route. They are by no means wealthy...I don't know how they do it. YIKES.

I agree with you on the social security. If I invested what I paid in through the years, I would be very "comfortable" in my retirement. Unfortunately, I do not plan on getting much if any when the time comes.

Brianna, so sorry about the T. I hope you get some relief soon. Lack of sleep is the worst with this dreaded condition. I see you have had it for some time. Do you think you have more difficulty with seasonal changes? With your worries, that can't be helpful either. There are so many dang triggers and each person is always unique.

 

Hey, Teri: I've dealt with lack of sleep for many years. I got used to it. Now, it doesn't matter. The increase in tinnitus (T) is from the cochlear implant. The prior T, which was high enough, was likely from a disease in both ears but the louder and consistent T didn't appear until a year or so prior to the implant. sakrt posted stats in a separate thread about it. I tried different drugs and nothing works other than refocusing. Ah, my battery in the implant just made its final beep and died (new batteries needed) and I hear the whooosh already.

lol... You sound like I do, "... there are so many dang triggers and each person is unique." Yep, and we have to deal with it somehow as you said. That's why I'm sometimes on this forum in the early hours of the morning and that backfires on me because to sleep, you're supposed to stay away from television and computers. Except I can't sleep because the noise gets whacky. I got so angry at what happened to sakrt that my partner and I talked about it and the storm in my head became louder. Anger is a trigger. Nope, I don't notice a thing with seasonal changes. I had to get out of here and go for a walk in the woods. I figured it would change my focus and allow us to get exercise. I agree - worrying begats stress and that begats louder sounds. It's a loop.

Private schools are for those who can afford it (somehow obviously) but I was fortunate enough to land in good schools (colleges were mediocre). Job wise, the colleges didn't matter as much as my ability to flex and catch on. If the public school system was as good as it was in my days, we'd have less of a need for private schools but they'd lose money. But with massive cutbacks and insane standardized testing, they're overall pretty bad. I know it's changing (fewer tests) here.

I think I must've said something incorrectly. I wish I could remember what SS taxes I paid. But, in total, it wasn't much compared to what I get out of it and Medicare. SS and Medicare don't come close to what I made working and but I didn't plan for an early retirement either. I couldn't find work in the NYC area (going about two hours away in a circumference around it). I reached out further but it becomes fishy (I tried anyway). I couldn't fake my age or my hearing loss.

Anyone who's retired and still able to function in our development, has a supplemental job because SS won't cut it. Our funds, I don't know. Time will tell. I am probably more concerned about the younger people growing up in this very corrupt country. I don't know what you and my niece will have down the road. I paint the picture unfortunately as I see it and we're right and I'm right a high % of the time before others see what's going on.

I wish you the best, Teri.

 

It depends on what your problem is. If it's a minor problem you will probably have to wait. When I was doing a MR-scan of my head after I damaged my ear two years ago I had to wait two months for the picture.

If I want a regular appointment with my GP, I always get that appointment the same day. If you need a doctor with a specialty it's different waiting times. It also depends on the urgency, and where in Norway you live.

We have small contribution fees when you go to the doctor tho. If I need an appointment with my GP, I have to pay around 20$ for that appointment. Physicians with specialty is slightly more. Around 40$. If you have to go to the doctor a lot, you get a free-card after around 200$. Then you stop paying. This free-card restarts every new year. The moment you get hospitalized you don't pay anything. Whatever the case.

This is one of our 'free' public hospitals, not that bad huh? Not all of them are like that, but we have a pretty good standard.

I understand that our healthcare is not free. We pay taxes of course. But, I think it's better to sacrifice a small amount of my monthly income, and then, if shit should become real, I get cancer or something serious, I can walk out of the hospital after treatment with no debt at all. About 30% of my incomes goes to taxes. I think its a pretty good deal considering the stuff I get in return.

I rather have some waiting time then end up as an debt slave. It's not a perfect system, no system can be perfect, but I think it's better then the american system where you seem to be pretty much on your own. Can I ask you, what do you do in America, if you are from a poor family, can't afford health insurance, then you get, lets say, cancer? Are you fucked, or do you get treatment anyway?

 

meeruf: Sounds better than the system we have.
1. Depending on the income tax bracket, we may pay more than you. Some taxes may be offset by medical expenses.
2. We moved from the north to Western North Carolina where things here used to be cheaper. But, we were cautioned about the lack of quality doctors here and getting in to see them. That's why when interviewing ENTs for the implant, I drove about 3 hours away and nixed him quickly and both had good reps (one was a jerk and his office where my ears were checked was filthy). The guy/hospital I liked were in Nashville - 300 miles or 482.8032 km (if the miles to km is correct).
3. Last week, something odd appeared on me and quickly. We were concerned it was lyme from deer ticks. Getting in to see my doctor was fast but she had no clue as to what it was. I needed to get to a specialist - dermatologist. The first office had their first opening in June. Couldn't wait. Others weren't taking new patients. I finally found a place that could get me in today (Tues.).
4. With the poor, yes, they're screwed. That's why I volunteered at a medical ministry and why some religions are important. They took on poor people who were terminally ill (legal here or not). Other poor go to hospitals. The catch - I read an article that said 1) Due to the large influx of poor, hospitals in Los Angeles were being shut down treating or not treating the poor. 2) They were pretty much dumped quietly on the streets.
-- The caveat (mentioned in this thread) is even if you were middle class if you couldn't pay your hospital bills, your income could be drained/garnished and you could lose your house. It's also why get laughed at when I created the terms for my advanced directives (for when I get really ill or in an bad accident) are so tightly defined. IF there's a return on investment (ROI), let me live. IF my status had no ROI, let me die. I have no intention of taking down my partner due to expensive bs and often bogus (refer to sakrt and her story) medical "care."

 

Noahs Ark is apparently based on the round boats that they made in those days in that region. Also in that region there were many floods on a regular basis. An attempt has been made to rebuild a round boat using the written records of how they did it. It worked and the boat floated and sailed with some people and some animals on board. It would seem that this is where the noahs ark story came from and then passed on down through the generations until it passed into folklore and became the story we know now...........just wanted to add this thought to the thread although of course I know it has nothing to do with assisted suicide so I apologise for going off thread............

 

@ Brianna

What a great point you made about the churches helping out with the poor. I had a Catholic friend tell me that the Catholic Church feeds more people, houses more people, educates more people, visits more incarcerated people than any other institution on the planet can ever hope to. I never checked the statistics on his bold statement, but I get his point that the churches do serve a purpose. The Mother Teresa's out there do the work that I am going to be honest in saying that I don't "have the stomach for". Maybe I could learn to adapt...but I don't know...it would be hard for me to deal with that day in and day out. Working at a poverty school is stressful for me as it is.

As a public school teacher, I would think that if all the private schools religious or otherwise as well as all the homeschooling families opted to stop and send their kiddos into the public schools, the District that I work for would sink! There is no way the District could support that many students coming through the doors! The classrooms would be packed to the gills! YIKES.

 

I applied for euthanasia.

but i have planed also 4 other ways for suicide

 

@Teri: I agree with you and you with me. Sorry, brain dead day. I've watched CNN for info about religion and regularly watch The History Channel with grains of salt. One of them showed the opulence churches create with the money they collect. Stained-glass windows were just one of many "wasted" uses of the money. It's sort of a double-bind situation.

It seems ironic that religion, while based on myths, also help out the poor as much as they
do. It may just be a mea culpa combined with a subtle hint of, "Screw you, look at how we're helping the poor." The poor already take constant hits and the middle class falling into that socioeconomic class will create an additional huge gap of complete and utter inequality. Our government clearly doesn't support the collective "us." I wouldn't expect them to start picking up the slack in gaps our corporate-driven government created and continues to create.

Kudos to you for being strong enough to remain in a very demanding (and rather idiotic) system of testing rather than allowing you to focus on more important things to which I was privy.

 

Hey, Man, I support what you're doing but if you have the strength to go through with it, would you subtly let us know when we won't read from you again? I support it and it makes me sad. A simple form of a ciao would be one simple keyword to let us know.

In peace and silence.

 

Yes i will write nice good bye letter to all, and than for support.

I got severe worsening of t 17 feb and i cant control it, trobalt on 350 makes me numb and so on but t is not better and i also, and like alergic not on medicine, i got corticosteroids injection and 17 feb it went up, doctor cant give me any medicine becouse i reac on amost all very bad.

if they say i have to wait too long i will just go to peer and overload my self and end it like that

 

There is nothing wrong with Suicide or Assisted Suicide. If someone wants to end their life, they have every right to do so as long as they are not harming anyone else.

The way I look at it is, if someone's decision doesn't affect me or another person, i have no business in what they do.
Just because there is some law in some book written by men, it doesn't make it right. We are in the 21st century.

 

Christian78: You will do what you need to do. I appreciate your response and know that may change. If I didn't fully support you, I'd be a hypocrite. What a mess because of the sadness it brings. You're one cool, in-pain dude with the little I've seen here, wrote the over 60 chick ...

 

Anyone who is alone in this world is then not harming anyone by committing suicide. However anyone who has close friends or close relatives ie parents or siblings aunts uncles cousins with whom they are in touch --then is indeed hurting someone if he or she commits suicide.
Remember that even if the person or persons left behind agree to the act of suicide of their relative or friend, they are still left with the emotional damage of the act and will carry it with them for the rest of their lives.

That is all I think about it apart from deep deep sadness to read christians post and urge him to re think his decision -- please.

 

That is so pointless and shortsighted. A society with healthy people makes much more sense. Not only is it good for the people who are sick, but for everyone. Less sick people means more people working. More people working means more taxes to the government and more people buying shit from the rich. It's better for everyone. I don't get it.

 

Hello All,

In Oregon and some other states, someone can get a prescription to take when they feel it is their time, if they have a terminal illness. That would exclude tinnitus, but I'm not sure I think assisted suicide should be an option for T. Of course, there is always the option to end one's life without assistance, so truly, no one can take that right away from anyone.

I think it should be reserved for terminal illness because it is terminal. It is ending life when perhaps life would only last a few more months or a year during which the person would be in terrible pain, not because someone is suffering something they could come out of or heal from mentally or physically with the right help and go on to live many vibrant decades. Humans are so much stronger than they know, and I would hate to take away that opportunity for growth by offering death in the form of a comfortable pill to those who might otherwise not only heal, but become stronger form having survived their suffering.

As to the discussion on religion and politics. There are a lot of generalizations and a lot of faulty reasoning going around in here about people, groups and countries. Within the context of that kind of discord, I'm not sure talking about the subjects is useful here. Though in a setting of compassion and openness , I think discussing both is useful and interesting.

I think all the argument around the subject just drives home what a personal choice it is - how we live, how we die, and how do we deal with suffering. Those are the primary concerns of any religion or teaching - they're just guidelines to deal with these questions. But also, these are the questions every human being must decide about for themselves in the end - religious or not.

We all have the choice to end our lives whenever we wish, but I don't think there's anything wrong with making that a comfortable choice when the end is very near. I am not sure what choice I would make, but I would like the option to be there for others who are suffering terribly and near death.

 

awbw8: I just came to the conclusion of what I'm asked on a fairly frequent basis by my partner. I made it clear that if she predeceases me, I sell our house and move. She asked where? I didn't have a clue. But I keep working on clearing our house as I am more able than she is right now, so neither she nor my youngest sis (obviously assuming I die before both) is stuck with it. It's a difficult experience to go through and I've been through it 4 times. I didn't think T would be on the list of allowable endings of life despite the fact that it causes a large number of people to commit suicide. I also know there's a residency requirement minimally in Oregon.

If some form of suicide is allowed anywhere in the states, and I'm able to make the transition there, that's where I'll go (Oregon is my first choice). There are so many ifs involved but this would be the ideal situation.

Your paragraphs are all important but this one sentence catches my eyes: "But also, these are the questions every human being must decide about for themselves in the end - religious or not." Yes and what I believe is so important in this thread is that in our American society as it stands now, talk of dying and planning doesn't happen until end of life. I read an article recently that said only 18% of Americans are prepared for death. My mom finally FINALLY accepted hospice two weeks before she died. She just didn't want to face it at the end. But we were able to talk about it (what do you want done, etc. 7 years before she died and I started the conversation, thank goodness, because my siblings couldn't handle it). Most people here don't have wills or trusts and put the how to die and when in the hands of the living. I'll judge that and say it's not right. It puts us in turmoil and often causes idiotic fighting to those left behind.

Since T can literally drive a person crazy, if it can be proven, I'm all for seeing it show up on a list of illnesses to end my life. The beyond migraines I had, clearly as a result of overdosing on sodas with aspartame, which could not be proven, should be on the same list. Physicians can't see everything or experience all we go through. There must be a happy medium. Kervorkian had it right. He gave his life for those who were suffering. He understood.

 

Why? Does it not all depend on the degree of suffering that an individual experiences?

For instant, let's say you have a brain tumor, which cannot be removed or treated and the physicians give you another 12 months to live. Thus you are terminally ill. However, you do not gravely suffer of pain. Just a minor headache every now and then. If you were in Oregon you could get a prescription for a peaceful pill. But it probably won't make much sense to you 'cause you do not suffer gravely. Still you're going to die like the rest of us, just your lifespan has been changed in quantity (not quality!).
Now there's someone suffering for years of extreme debilitating painful T 24/7. This individual did try all kind of meds and therapies to absolutely no avail. There's nothing. Nothing that mitigates the pain. The suffering. The lost of quality of life. This individual would be exluded from a peaceful pill because T (unfortunately) is not terminal.

Get the picture?

In theory yes, but in reality ending yourself is freakin' hard. There's no off button. Otherwise we had plenty of those.

~

Where?

I genuinely hope you get ASAP better. That T softens or that there will be a treatment. And that you change your mind. Either way, pls let us know. We do care about you here! ~hug

 

Oh my, I think you just nailed it.

 

This thread isn't about the right to commit suicide. Its about the assisted suicide specifically, and the legality of it less specifically. We can talk about our right to eat, which nobody can take from us. Fortunately 'assisted' eating is legal in every country. Which is to say, we can go to a grocery store and/or restaurant to get food. We don't have to hunt for it or farm and harvest it.

Life is one long terminal illness from the day we're born. Placing these subjective constraints on assistance opens it up to a lot of legal interpretation and the associated challenges. How do we quantify the suffering? How long is long enough? Do they have to have a terminal illness, really, or can they just have some horrible neuropathy?

You would hate to deprive someone of the opportunity to grow by offering them a release from their suffering? Would you also be there to hold their hand, pay their bills, get their medication, take them to their doctors' visits, etc. I understand what you're saying, but the reality is much more complex. In this logic, we could also help people grow stronger by depriving them of education, food, and shelter. I suppose the school of hard knocks, begging for food, and homelessness would make someone quite strong.

In the end, it comes down to freedom in my opinion. Person A asks Person B to help them. Person B gladly accepts. However, Person C disagrees with the idea, and decides that this cannot happen, even though it has no affect on them personally.