Working in NYC

Discussion in 'Support' started by Jomo, Oct 5, 2016.

tinnitus forum
    1. Jomo

      Jomo Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      9/4/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      going for a rim shot on the snare drum.
      Ok this place is terrible for ears... I wear ear plugs on the subway and when I am on the streets I put tissue in my ears just to muff out the sounds...

      I don' t want to baby my ears too much... the problem I am noticing are these restaurants.. .they all play music at 90-95 debibels... it's ridiculous...

      Anyways does anybody have any tips on how they navigate this city of noise lol?
       
    2. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      @Jomo Not a good idea to put earplugs in your ears, or anything else to block out sound. You will make your ears more sensitive and the hyperacusis (which I suspect you have) worse. Only use noise reducing earplugs in very noisy situations not for every day use. If you are using foam earplugs that's even worse.

      If you have sensitive hearing and it sounds like you do, then you need to be seen at ENT for tests. Use a sound machine at night by your bedside to help desensitize your audiotry system. Keeping away from sounds you will increase the problem.
      Michael
       
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    3. Jomo

      Jomo Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      9/4/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      going for a rim shot on the snare drum.
      So your saying no ear plugs (foam) on train? What is the diff btw those and noise reducing? I take the train for an hour every day. The decible range is 95 - 100...I dont have hyperacusis...i did in my left ear for 3 weeks but none now after taking predisone for a day...loud noise obviously will still aggrevate my ears but no pain...i have seen an ENT...no hearing loss..and i have been using my phone as a white noise machine.
       
    4. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      @Jomo. Jomo, you think that you don't have hyperacuis but I think that you do. Your tinnitus was caused by loud noise so that's an indication that you have Hyperacusis. Hyperacusis does not heal quickly believe me I know. If the train journey is loud then it's ok to use noise reducing earplugs but don't use foam as you are blocking out the sound and it's not good thing to do. Noise reducing earplugs are quite cheap but only use them in very noisy situations as as the train or night club. I think 18decibel reduction should be ok for you which is standard.

      Not everyone with tinnitus has hearing loss but I can bet my bottom dollar that you have some hyperacusis although it might have calmed down a little. You need to use a good quality sound machine like an Oasis model. Using your phone is fine as long a it's connected to a docking station with speakers. You see, you need good quality sound enrichment and a phone's little speaker isn't good enough in my opinion. If you want your ears to get better then invest in a quality sound machine: sound oasis, go to their website. Model S65o is popular.

      My advise is to never use headphones even at low volume and keep a way from loud sounds. Go out an enjoy yourself at clubs etc but make sure you have your noise reducing earplugs and still be careful of loud sound when wearing them. If external sound is loud enough, it can be transfered through the Mastoid bone. This is the hard piece of bone behine each ear. It has air pockets within it and is honeycombed. Loud sounds can pass though this into the cochlear where damage can occure so be careful. Also, don't think that deep bass can't do any harm because it's just as dangerous as high frequencies.

      Give it time you will recover just be sensible as you have been doing.
      Michael
       
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    5. Jomo

      Jomo Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      9/4/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      going for a rim shot on the snare drum.
      Can you please provide me with an example of noise reducing ear plugs? All i seem to find online are the foam type.
       
    6. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
    7. Jomo

      Jomo Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      9/4/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      going for a rim shot on the snare drum.
      Thx so much
       
    8. Foncky
      Doubtful

      Foncky Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      An explosion, music, and fate.
      Please don't listen to Michael advice, it's quite ridiculous.

      NY is noisy : subway, police sirens all the time, cars everywhere, loud music in shops and restaurants. We're talking about high and dangerous decibels here ! Not just common "everyday" and innocent noise.

      Just wear earplugs in the street or subway and whenever you feel like you should. This will only protect your ears, not damage them ! Even with strong foam earplugs, you WILL hear sounds in NY, don't worry about making your ears more sensitive, really.

      By the way, there is NO scientific evidence for saying that using earplugs everyday makes the ears more sensitive. This is a bullshit many ENTs and audiologists love to spread.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
    9. Jomo

      Jomo Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      9/4/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      going for a rim shot on the snare drum.
      I can tell you on the train i hear everything...the announcements for each stop is 100 decibles every time...the noise is not completley blocked out...there is construction going on all over the place...i usually dont avoid noises including when i drive but down here its loud and louder...appreciate all the advice
       
    10. Foncky
      Doubtful

      Foncky Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      An explosion, music, and fate.
      100dB : with really good foam plugs, IF you fit them perfectly, you'll still hear a 70-75dB voice... Nothing to make your ears sensitive, just a normal volume !
       
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    11. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      @Jomo Jomo, I totally agree with Foncky and you should follow his suggestions if you don't ever want to get better. Your choice, just remember you will be the one in the discomfort if things don't work out
      Best of luck
      Michael
       
    12. Bobby B
      Fine

      Bobby B Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      long term NIHL and recent acoustic trauma
      Plugs / muffs don't make ear more sensitive - this statement is wrong

      What
      @Michael Leigh is referring to is a "brain gain" effect that is temporary and happens while you wear ear protection but this goes away after removing protection and is by no means permanent - we have studies to prove this .

      It's not an effect inside the ears themselves

      Besides any big city noise provides enough sound even wiht the best plugs / muffs to be not sound isolated , so please continue wearing the best hearing protection you can.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    13. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      @Bobby B Indeed Bobby, I admire the way you've explained yourself so eloquently " The Brain gain effect" nice touch. After having tinnitus for less than year I marvel at your knowledge. Please keep up the splendid work. Next you'll be advising everyone to listen to music through headphones and go clubbing and don't worry how loud the sound is because it's the: Brain gain effect....Must remember that one.
      Haven't got time to argue rather a little humour instead.
      All the best
      Michael
       
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    14. Bobby B
      Fine

      Bobby B Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      long term NIHL and recent acoustic trauma
      Million of people sleep all nights with earplugs on and no one ever woke up with permanent over-sensitive ears or permanent hyperacusis

      My father wife slept for decades with those large orange hearos plugs as she is a light sleeper and she has perfect hearing with no sensitive ears issues whatsoever

      I think no one on these boards is worried about some very temporary potential discomfort versus the risk of having a permanent inner ear damage and resulting T increase
       
      • Informative Informative x 1
    15. lymebite
      Breezy

      lymebite Member Benefactor Team Research

      Location:
      United States
      Tinnitus Since:
      2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Also millions of industrial workers, airport workers, etc. wear ear protection 8 hours a day - none of them get Hyperacusis from that practice. By doing so they avoid hearing damage.
       
      • Informative Informative x 1
    16. Zorro!
      Wtf

      Zorro! Member

      You guys make good points about people sleeping with ear plugs and also wearing them while they work in loud environments every day.

      Personally I don't see anything wrong with wearing earplugs on the subway each day nor do I see anything wrong with popping them in when at a loud restaurant. -- And yes, restaurants these days can be uncomfortably loud. I often feel sorry for the wait staff in those places.
       
    17. Foncky
      Doubtful

      Foncky Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      An explosion, music, and fate.
      PLEASE @Michael Leigh explain to us how several police sirens a day (120dB), a 100dB subway or a 90dB restaurant are good for the ears, particularly with no protection ! Please explain.

      You have T since 1996 so you feel you can tell Bobby he hasn't got a clue ? I have T since 2004 and Bobby has far more knowledge than me, I admit it without any shame.

      I can hardly believe that you think a daily life in NY with no earplugs is the way to improve hyperacusis. My experience says that if Jomo wants to get way worse, just like I did over those 12 years, he should not wear plugs in those noisy everyday places. Loud noise is dangerous, no matter if it's an everyday noise or not.
       
    18. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      @Foncky @Jomo @Zorro! @Bobby B @lymebite
      Foncky.
      I have decided to reply to your post because you have said please; at least you are showing that you have some manners unlike your previous comments about me to another member.

      Some people on this thread have not understood the advice that I was giving to Jomo and for this reason I smiled to myself, for when people don’t understand what’s the point in arguing? Ignorance is bliss as they say.
      Someone that has been exposed to loud noise and gets tinnitus and hyperacusis, must be careful of using earplugs especially foam types to block-out normal everyday sounds. Please understand what I’ve said: normal everyday sounds.

      Jomo has mentioned the noise levels on the train is 90 decibels or over and he right to be concerned that this can cause damage to his hearing. However, it is much better for him (in my opinion) to wear noise-reducing earplugs instead of foam earplugs. By wearing noise-reducing earplugs by 18 decibels or higher for instance, external sounds are reduced but the auditory system is still been supplied with enriched sounds from the outside environment and thus, this helps his auditory system to become desensitised.

      If Jomo continues to wear foam type earplugs on the train and on the street, he is subjecting his auditory system to a dull muffled sound, unlike noise-reducing earplugs, which reduce sound but wont impair sound quality. He will still hear all the subtle nuances around him of everyday life on the train, and walking along the streets of NYC but the sound quality will not be impaired. This will help his brain and auditory system to close down their heightened auditory receptors or gates, which have been opened up when he suffered the noise trauma.

      The only way to treat hyperacusis, sensitivity to sound and close down these auditory receptors or gates, is to introduce sound enrichment/sound therapy. The sound enrichment should be a good quality to gain maximum benefit. One of the best ways to do that is using normal every day sounds and a sound machine at night by the bedside.

      One can also be on a treatment programme such as TRT, where white noise generators are worn and the person also has counselling with a Hearing Therapist. The counselling is a very important part of the treatment and mustn’t be overlooked. I was on a TRT programme for 2 years because I had very severe tinnitus and hyperaucusis. So bad I had to ask people to lower their voice when talking to me as my ears hurt so much. My hyperacusis is completely cured now.

      Someone mentioned, what about people that wear foam earplugs all day and to bed at night they don’t get hyperacusis. That comment really tickled me and I apologise for being flippant. You will find the people that wear foam earplugs at work or in bed at night haven’t suffered noise trauma to their brain and auditory system the way Jomo has and the rest of us. Hence, these people don’t have hyperacusis.

      Jomo might believe that he doesn’t have any hyperacusis or thinks he’s probably just experiencing some sensitivity to sound or, as some people say: reactive tinnitus. In my opinion, Jomo has hyperacusis. Please remember there is different degrees of it just as tinnitus comes in different intensities. Reactive tinnitus is Hyperacusis in my opinion. It’s having an over sensitivity to sound and the way to treat it is using sound enrichment – sound therapy.

      Whilst it’s perfectly okay for Jomo to use noise-reducing earplugs for a while to allow his auditory system to heal, he must also be careful not to make a habit of wearing them to regularly as one can get too used to this and can make the auditory system remain hypersensitive. Of course he should always have noise reducing earplugs with him when going to clubs and use them but I don’t advise using foam plugs. Foam plugs are fine when using noisy power tool and gardening equipment like petrol lawn mower etc.

      Tinnitus and hyperacusis are both complex and the healing process takes time. Please click on my profile picture, as there are many started threads on tinnitus and hyperaucusis that might be helpful.

      Michael

      PS: I have had tinnitus a long time. Whilst I see myself as having some experience with it and counselling people with the condition, it is mostly to do when it was caused by loud noise exposure, as mine was. Many things can cause tinnitus, therefore, I do not regard myself as an expert on tinnitus and I’m always willing to learn from others.
       
      Last edited: Oct 6, 2016
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    19. Bobby B
      Fine

      Bobby B Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      long term NIHL and recent acoustic trauma
      @Michael Leigh
      Your first statement is that overprotecting ears makes the ear sensitive - implying that it does something to the ears .. It's not the case - plugging ears does not change the physiology of the inner ear.

      Now you refer to the " auditory system " ...ok not sure what this is but my point was that whatever sensitivity happens it's not inside those (noise) damaged ears , it's in the brain .

      But most importantly , you fail to mention that whatever effect could result in terms of brain overcompensating for the lack of sound - this effect is only temporary and totally reversible unlike noise damage .

      So again , why worry about a Brain increased sensitivity to sound that may or may not happen but is only temporary and will subside after a few minutes at most , once plugs / muffs are off ?

      Or do you have more specific data / studies on how long the sensitivity remains ?
       
    20. Jomo

      Jomo Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      9/4/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      going for a rim shot on the snare drum.
      Well just to be clear the only time i am going to wear earplugs is in the train...i even looked up some studies on it...30 minutes in on the subway will damage my ears....usually when i am out and about i dont wear anything but like i said earlier...when i go to lunch the music at some of these chain places is too loud...90-95 db. With regard to hyperacusis...i dont have any pain with regard to normal every day sounds...when i had hyperacusis it felt like someone was stabbing me in the ear if the noise was loud enough enough...this has subsided after i took predisone...the only thing that happens now (which happened tuesday) was a i clapped my hands very hard while trying to killl a mosquito....definitly over 100 db doing that...i felt a twich in my left ear and had a spike in my T that night...so i may still have some sensitivity but it doesnt seem to fit the definition of hyperacusis...im going to look into custom fitted plugs...for now all i got are these foamies and will look into musician ear plugs over the weekend
       
    21. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      Hyperacusis comes in different degrees of intensity as I've already explained. The condition takes time to calm down as yours is. You are right to want to use earplugs in bars, clubs etc. But, I advise you again, use noise reducing type and not foam as you're not helping yourself if you do.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    22. Foncky
      Doubtful

      Foncky Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      An explosion, music, and fate.
      Didn't mean to be rude @Michael Leigh. Just really had the impression you were saying that no protection in NY is the best way to cure hyperacusis...

      I agree about quality sound enrichment, it can be useful for some people. But 2 or 3 hours a day of strong protection (foam earplugs + earmuffs if necessary), in the subway, street or restaurants is not going to compromise a sound therapy...

      Do you know the level of protection the Ebay plugs you linked offer ? I use similar ones sometimes, I can tell that they won't protect enough someone with T and H in a noisy street, subway, bar or club. They just won't !
       
    23. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      I understand your concern Foncky and I didn’t see your previous comments as rude perhaps a little impolite. However, you did redeem yourself in a later post and that’s why I replied. So I’d like to put the matter to rest.
      You must do what you think is right for you’ve had tinnitus for quite a while with hyperacusis. I have taken a look at a couple of your very early posts and see that you also have hearing loss, which can’t be easy to deal with.

      As I said, you must do what you feel is right and I’m not one to argue with that. If someone were to contact me asking for my advice and they described similar symptoms to you then I would say the following:

      Hi Sonia,
      If you haven’t been seen at ENT in the last year then I would make an appointment to get some tests done. Since you have hearing loss were you ever prescribed hearing aids? If so, do you wear them? A hearing aid/s can help tinnitus and hyperaucusis a lot. Duel hearing aids with white noise generators are also available.

      After your ENT tests your consultant will probably advise a referral to a Hearing Therapist for tinnitus management. A variety of treatment options are usually available some I’ve previously discussed with you.

      I know that you find environmental sounds spikes your tinnitus and hyperacusis, but if you are able to be fitted with hearing aid/s it will help to calm the symptoms down and I think you’d be surprised. I know you are not wearing foam earplugs all day but you are making your auditory system more sensitive in my opinion. I think you would be better off with noise-reducing earplugs.

      You wouldn’t be able to wear foam or noise-reducing earplugs if you are wearing hearing aids, which I think you need. By not wearing hearing aids your brain compensates for the hearing loss by increasing the background ambiance from the outside world. This increases your sensitivity sound, spiking your tinnitus and hyperaucusis.

      If you are not using a sound machine at night for sound enrichment then I think that you should, as this will also help you to habituate to the tinnitus and reduce the hyperacusis. Only by using hearing aid/s and sound enrichment at night will the sensitivity that you are experiencing begin to reduce to levels that you are able to tolerate.

      All the best
      Michael
       
      • Like Like x 1
    24. Foncky
      Doubtful

      Foncky Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      An explosion, music, and fate.
      Thank you.

      No audiologist or ENT told me to wear hearing aids for now, and I must say I don't feel I should. My level of H currently prevents me from putting any source of noise in my ears. It's painful at low level.

      Hearing aids might be the next step for me, but right now, I have to calm down my H.
       

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