Acoustic CR® Neuromodulation: a New Treatment for Tinnitus

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by joe, Jan 22, 2012.

    1. GeoMcD

      GeoMcD Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2010
      Hi All,
      You can hear it too?! I thought it was just me. I have high-pitch relatively pure tones in both ears; the good news is I don't so much notice the right side, 'cuz the left is so loud.
      But to get to the point, if you want to experiment on your own with tones try:
      http://onlinetonegenerator.com/

      You can play tones in your ear all day - have a blast. I don't think it will help; doesn't help me a bit. But I do like trying to match the tone to the tone in my ear. Sometimes, it seems to 'silence' the tinnitus if only, because the external drowns out the internal. Again, I haven't found that it helps the chronic condition at all -- if anything, it seems to aggravate it a bit, as does (in my case) any loud external noise.
       
    2. Jahhsoul
      Curious

      Jahhsoul Member

      Location:
      Spain
      Tinnitus Since:
      9/24/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unkown (not acute acoustic trauma).
      Most of cases of T are caused by hearing loss. Okay, they research for hearing loss.That means they works for prevent or reverse hearing loss, in any case, that wont cure T suffers. (sry bad eng).
       
    3. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      I believe a cure for damaged hearing will cure the majority of tinnitus and hyperacusis. For the simple reason that most tinnitus and hyperacusis is caused by damaged hearing. I know from personal experience that my tinnitus and hyperacusis is caused by damaged hearing because of noise trauma. So to me it makes sense to concentrate on the source of the problem.
      In the means time I hope that this therapy is able to give me relief. Every time my tinnitus and hyperacusis is bad it reminds me of my hearing loss.
       
    4. Jahhsoul
      Curious

      Jahhsoul Member

      Location:
      Spain
      Tinnitus Since:
      9/24/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unkown (not acute acoustic trauma).
      My T is idopathic and I dont have hearing loss, I have cervical and chronical problems in my back, problems in my jaw, chonic stress. So maybe that kind of drugs wonk´t work for me. :banghead::banghead:
       
    5. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      Idiopathic means the doctor does not know (or perhaps not yet) what causes your tinnitus. Am I right?
      You probably know that, without showing hearing damage on a normal audiogram, there still can be damage in the cochlea. After the blast that caused my tinnitus, I also have tinnitus in my left ear. Yet my left ear does not show damage in the audiogram. So the conclusion could be that there is no hearing damage in my left ear but there is tinnitus. I know that there is damage in my left ear that does not show on the audiogram!
      Let us just hope that with progress in otology there also is a better understanding of inflictions similar to yours which than are able to be cured too.
       
    6. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      Another week past, using the Neurostimulator.
      Every time I use the stimulator the tinnitus almost instantly goes up and changes into purple noise.
      Very, very slowly I hear a lower frequency gaining. (apparently this is supposed to happen). My guess is roughly half my original tinnitus frequency of 9.5 kHz.
      There are more instances of low level tinnitus during a day. Very occasionally I experience real low level tinnitus. These moments are very short lived, but seem to be increasing in number. Still these moments are rare.
      I am not able to attribute this to either the Neurostimulator or natural progression.

      The last few days I am able to hear the tone bursts, the neurostimulator is generating, more clearly.
      The tone bursts are not intrusive. After a while I don't notice them any more. (Habituating (-;?)
      I do not know if this is improvement is temporary/coincident or a definite improvement. I will know in a few weeks time I assume.
      Again no way of knowing if this improvement is due to the therapy or because of temporary low level tinnitus at the time.
      I am afraid all quite vague. But it is only a few weeks that I am using the Neurostimulator.
       
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    7. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      And roughly another week past.
      My impression is that there is not much progress. One thing I start to wonder about is, if the Neurostimulator aggravates my hyperacusis.
      Pretty much impossible at the moment to ascertain because I need to use the stimulator for a minimum of 4 hours a day. Usually at the beginning of the afternoon my hyperacusis gets tiresome.
      At the moment my tinnitus is 5 out of 10. Very subjective I know.
       
    8. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      And another week.
      I have had some relief. Also more (just) lower frequency tinnitus. But the high frequency remains on top of this lower frequency tinnitus. No difference in hyperacusis.
      I do find the therapy exhausting. I still think that extremely slowly the tones are getting clearer. Could this be an indication the tinnitus level is getting lower? I think so.
      Al in al: very little improvement.
       
    9. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      I believe slowly my Tinnitus is going down in volume. The tone is still high (9 kHz). The lower tone is gaining very slowly. The audiologist and I decided not to lower the tones just yet. Wait for the lower tinnitus frequency to get more distinguishable. My hyperacusis and distorted hearing are starting to bother me more. It could be that my focus is less on tinnitus because it actually is going down and therefore the focus on hyperacusis and distorted hearing is increasing?
       
    10. Cheza
      Wishful

      Cheza Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Barking dogs/stress
      I'm not a doctor, but that sounds a logical explanation.

      What type of neurostimulator are you using? Is it the SaluStim device from The Tinnitus Treatment Centre?
       
    11. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
    12. Cheza
      Wishful

      Cheza Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Barking dogs/stress
      @Reinier - That's expensive, but I guess it would be since it includes consultation and follow-up appointments. I'm really glad you're seeing steady improvement. I seem to remember earlier posts indicating your tinnitus is severe.

      The Tinnitus Clinic website says, "Initially, you will wear the Neurostimulator for four to six hours every day, although you may choose to split this into sessions of one hour at a time for example." I've been gaining improvement with the CR neuromodulation audio that @Steve devised. He suggests listening 4 hours a day at one-hour intervals rather than a four-hour long session. What is your listening protocol?

      By the way, my tinnitus is not tonal although it does have one overarching tonal component, so I'm wondering why this company suggests that it would help tonal tinnitus but doesn't include non-tonal tinnitus.
       
    13. monacco

      monacco Member

      Location:
      forte Antoine .monaco
      Tinnitus Since:
      29/09/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      anknown
      This dispaire that en riches the charlatans :mad:
       
    14. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      I do not notice a difference. One go, or split up. I have been experimenting with it.
      My tinnitus is tonal. Although, when I use the neuromodulator my tinnitus changes to a purple noise.
      Is your tinnitus a noise tinnitus if not a tonal?
      But I agree. It is expensive. Like I mentioned earlier in one of my posts. I hope it is expensive because the company wants to brake even ASAP. For the reason that a biological cure is expected. That is what is called "wishful thinking" (-;
      @monacco I do hope you are wrong in this instance. Naturally this is something I have been thinking about.
      But CBT did not work for me. So, yes I started to despair.
      Looking at the principle of the neuromodulator it did not look too far fetched to me.
      The weird thing is that insurers in the Netherlands will pay for TRT. As far as I know there is no clinical prove that TRT works.
      There is also no clinical prove that the neuromodulator works. Yet the insurer will not pay for the neuromodulator.
      I am not defending anything. For the simple reason that if in the end it does not work for me I also will post this.
      This is also why I post once a week to inform of progress or the lack thereof.

      Would I pay that amount of money for a placebo? Yes. Because if I think it works for me, that is al that matters and to me it is not a placebo any more.
       
    15. AlexSongitus

      AlexSongitus Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      From my experience playing around with the ACRN-treatment app, my T was extremely responsive when it was tonal. Once it became a hiss, it was impossible to pin point any frequency that had any effect. I went up and down the scale. But when it was tonal, I would get immediate relief, like in as little as 10 seconds. I could hear it instantly quieting. Perhaps it's that?
       
    16. Cheza
      Wishful

      Cheza Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Barking dogs/stress
      What I've discovered with the general fuzz frequency detector is that when I hit the main tinnitus frequency, the tone bounces around from ear to ear and in my head. It's a very strange phenomenon, but I've tried it several times with weeks in-between testing, and it happens each time. My tinnitus isn't a true hiss, it's like static with a machine-gun rhythm. Sometimes it sounds like a pit of rattlesnakes, hissing and rattling at the same time. Other times it sounds like cicadas, or a shower of fine needles falling on glass. But almost always there's that overarching tea kettle whistle which sometimes is piercing and sometimes is more like a whine blended with a hum.

      For the last few days I've used the CR neuomodulation from Steve. on this forum, and it's made more of an improvement than targeting one frequency. Also, for me, it's much easier to listen to for hours at a time. I've never had immediate relief from anything. Everyone is different, though, so if something is working for you, stay with it. :)

      Acoustic Neuromodulation - descending 5ths
       
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    17. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      Yes. Same experience here. The audiologist and I decided to wait changing the neurostimulator tones until the lower tone in this purple noise becomes more pronounced. She said that from experience this is likely to happen. Than target the lower frequency.
      When I start the therapy I too immediately hear the tinnitus change from a tone to a hiss. I am not certain about quieting. It still is too much all over the place during an average day. But like I posted earlier, I do feel that very slowly, on average, the discomfort is going down. And this is NOT habituation.
      I do not know what sound cicades make. We do not have these in Holland. Do they sound like crickets? But even crickets and fine needles falling on glass have a prevailing/key note frequency. Difficult to pinpoint perhaps, but doable?
       
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    18. Cheza
      Wishful

      Cheza Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Barking dogs/stress
      There are lots of cicada videos on YouTube, but this one comes closest to what mind sounds like, except mine is much higher pitched and has sort of a trilling quality to it:

      Nature sounds - Cicadas - Chicharras


      I think I've pinpointed mine at approximately 6800 to 7100 Hz, which is good enough for notching. Even so, Steve's neuromodulation is helping me more than anything else I've ever tried. The 9/10 days have dropped to 8/10, and the moderate days have dropped from 8/10 to 7/10 and 6/10, which is kind of where it's at right now. I hear it, but if I focus on work, it will become less noticeable even though I'm constantly aware of it.

      I'm also trying the Back to Silence method for the last two or three months, and my responses are still the same number of times, unfortunately, on the 7/10 and 8/10 days, like about 150 times a day.
       
    19. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      These sounds cicades make, conjure up warm summer evenings. Very rare in the Netherlands were I live.
      It is good that you think you found an approximate frequency. I do think you need to preserve.
      I have been told that the therapy I do could take up to 8 months. (This is worst case scenario though). This apparently varies a lot between people.
      But we all know how elusive tinnitus can be.

      I have tried Back to Silence too. Unfortunately for me it didn't seem to work. It also reminded me of CBT, which did not work for me either. Perhaps this is the reason why I did not continue the Back to Silence method.

      By the way: today was a 5 regarding tinnitus (and pretty constant!). Which I am happy with :rockingbanana:
       
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    20. Cheza
      Wishful

      Cheza Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Barking dogs/stress
      That's great! I'm aiming for 4/10 or 5/10 most days, so I can function. Today's tinnitus ramped up super high all of a sudden and was very distressing, but I went to mynoise.net and used Audacity to create an audio file with adjusted settings on the Nocturnal Desert sound. It has frogs, crickets, water, and cicadas. Unless I'm listening for my tinnitus, it isn't as noticeable. Kind of annoying to have to listen to audio all day long, but this is better than the tinnitus.

      I hope you will continue to post updates on your progress. Even if it takes eight months, that time will pass no matter what you're doing. Might as well use the time in sound therapy. :)

      Is your tinnitus in your ears or in your head? Mine is in my head, makes it harder to mask.
       
    21. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      Both. But usually in my ears. When left and right ear tinnitus levels are the same I experience it inside my head. When left, and/or right ear tinnitus level differs, I hear tinnitus in my ears.
      Sometimes it flies from one side to the other for an instance. Right through my head. It can disorientate me for a brief moment.
       
    22. DebInAustralia
      Fine

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      30/12/13
      @Cheza
      Can Steve's cr neuromod help with hissing/white noise or does it only address tonal?
       
    23. Steve
      Creative

      Steve Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Sheffield, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
      Hi Deb,

      I would stress that these tones are experiments, based on the theory of neuromodulation with a lot of tweaking. My theory is that they can be helpful for broader range noises where you struggle to identify a tone or where there are multiple tones.

      One thing I've come back with from the TRI conference is the need to understand the causes for tinnitus and what works for a particular sub-type (cause, duration etc). I can't say anything about my tones at the moment but I'm planning to experiment with them in the future to understand what group they work best for - which is probably the general group that respond to audio therapy (whichever that may be).
       
    24. Cheza
      Wishful

      Cheza Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Barking dogs/stress
      My tinnitus is not tonal. It's a tea kettle whistle on top of a rattlesnake pit, sometimes like cicadas, sometimes like someone shaking tiny metal bits in an aluminum pan, sometimes an oscillating metallic hiss with a bit of a squeal.

      I'm going to continue with the CR neuromodulation because last week it gave me two mild days in a row, following intensive listening to Steve's audio. The mild days might be coincidence, but even the third day wasn't so bad. As I recall, you have central head noise. Mine shows up in different locations in my head, depending upon what part of my brain decides to act up.

      @Steve - Is it possible for CR neuromodulation to make tinnitus temporarily worse? Last night the high-pitched hissing became almost a screeching sound. Definitely a 10/10, one of the worst nights I've had in almost two years. The whole day yesterday was really difficult to deal with it. Today it's a 3 or 4/10. I can cope with it fairly well.

      I created a notched audio file from mynoise.net, consisting of a burbling water stream, some cicadas, some crickets. (Probably useless because of uneven frequencies.) I listened to it all day yesterday, low volume, just below the tinnitus threshold. It really helped me to cope, but I'm wondering if it did more harm than good due to listening to it for so long. Damned if I do and damned if I don't ...?
       
    25. RaZaH
      Dancing

      RaZaH Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Reykjavík, Iceland
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012/04
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Benzo + loud noise
      I somehow got rid of my lower 3.1 Khz tone while using tinnitus tamer , might be a coincidence..probably.
       
    26. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      I was told by the audiologist that this is expected. Also my personal experience. Not only that. When I start a session in the morning, instantly my tinnitus level goes up and changes into purple noise. The experience from the audiologist was that the excesses should even out to a lower general level. Yesterday for me was not a good day. Today starts very good. 4 out of 10. But the difficult part of the day usually is in the afternoon. We'll see. I still have not decided if on average the therapy works for me.
       
    27. Steve
      Creative

      Steve Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Sheffield, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
      With every audio therapy they mention that the volume may go up sometimes so it's likely it can happen from time to time. There are also spikes that you may have gotten anyway. Was it after using the notched sound?

      Whatever you do with audio therapies I don't think it's a good idea to listen to them for too long, the audionotch website tells you to listen for 1 hour daily. The brain needs some down time to process, especially when you are creating an artificial soundscape that would not be heard normally.

      One other thing, especially for notching, is to keep a check on the frequency of your tinnitus. If it moves you need to do the notch again to make sure you're working on the right frequency area.
       
    28. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      Precisely what my audiologist also told me we will do with the neuromodulator. If you don't, the therapy will become counter productive. I am using the neuromodulator for five hours a day. I have been told to go for a minimum of 4 hours and a maximum of 6 hours.
       
    29. Grae
      Barefooter

      Grae Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Colchester UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2006
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      presumed inherited
      Greetings Peeps

      saw this today.... http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s.../new-hope-for-tinnitus-sufferers-7576977.html

      "Results from the trial, led by Professor Peter Tass at the Julich Research Centre in Germany, will be presented at a British Medical Association conference tomorrow.

      They also appear in the journal Restorative Neurology and Neuroscience.

      Acoustic CR Neuromodulation has been available in Germany since 2010, where it has been used to treat more than 2,000 patients.

      Mark Williams, an audiologist at the Tinnitus Clinic, said: "This landmark academic paper ... is the first in-man trial for the CR concept, and its results are extremely encouraging. As the first treatment for tinnitus to remove rather than mask symptoms, clinical evidence of safety and efficacy will hopefully open up this treatment to a wider range of patients."

      The clinic is funding a UK trial in a larger patient group at Nottingham University.

      It is also submitting an appraisal application to the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (Nice).

      Approval from Nice could result in the treatment being made available on the NHS."

      ......this looks like hopeful progress, the results are encouraging.
       
    30. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      I am not sure, but the date on top of this article reads Monday 19 March 2012?
       

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