Antidepressants (SSRIs, SNRIs, MAOs, TCAs, TeCAs)

Have you tried coming off anti-depressants before? How long have you been on them?

Has someone given you advice on 5-HTP and GABA?

I would love to get off of fluoxetine, but it doesn't look like I can.

 

I did yeah. Some small things in my right ear but it cleared up quite a lot of other stuff so can say for me it was a lifesaver.

 

I'm glad it worked so well for you. Could you tell me when your new noise appeared? How long had you been taking Sertraline when it appeared? Did you stop the treatment and that new tone never left even after stopping Sertraline?

Thank you in advance.

 

It came quite quickly after going on 100mg and is still there In a sense when it's quiet. I used sertraline for about 5 months at a 50mg level. Then discontinued and started using Modafinil instead which has been nothing short of amazing.

 

I have successfully tapered off antidepressants before. I have used antidepressants back when my father died suddenly in 2011. I was only 15 back then and I couldn't manage the extreme grief without them. I stopped using them in 2013. I don't remember what antidepressants I used but I know they were the hormonal type. I also had a plethora of side effects like extreme weight gain and lack of emotions but those resolved by themselves after I slowly got off them.

I started using antidepressants again in 2016 when I got tinnitus, hyperacusis and hearing loss besides suffering the loss of my brother-in-law in 2015 who I was very close to and my dog died of cancer so that was a lot to deal with at the time and I made the mistake of starting to use the antidepressant medication again. I have now successfully been coming off the antidepressants again over these last couple of months. I have lessened my dose of Paroxetine from 2 tablets to half a tablet a day without any side effects. As a matter of fact, I now have less anxiety than I had with a higher dose and my weight is slowly coming off.

I received my 5-HTP today. This brand if anyone is interested:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tablets-Months-Griffonia-Extract-Nutravita/dp/B07K46Z7QK/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2BICZU5MJH3XJ&keywords=nutravita+5-htp&qid=1573635827&sprefix=nutravita+5+htp,aps,437&sr=8-5

And as of today I am coming off Paroxetine completely and using 5-HTP to replace it.

I will report the results and how I feel in this forum. However, coming off Paroxetine is just 1 part of my plan. Next I will try to slowly taper off Risperidone and replace it with GABA.

As of how I learned about 5-HTP and GABA I have to say I did all the research myself just like I am forced to do often these days. Nobody gave me any useful or legit advice because legal drug dealers that are psychiatrists always just know how to increase the dose of the same antipsychotics and antidepressants that don't work in the first place. If there is anything wrong with your state, they don't replace them, they don't offer natural alternatives, they don't give a single fuck about how you are feeling. They just do their bidding for corrupt medical industry, the same industry that offers antidepressants and antipsychotics to young children, in other words, damaging the brains and poisoning their minds. So I had no other choice, but look for natural alternatives myself and 5-HTP was one of the most well reviewed, a scientifically proven way to naturally increase serotonin without a plethora of side effects that antidepressants and antipsychotics have.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/5-htp-benefits

Also coming off Prozac is no joke but I would advise for you to try 5-HTP, it for example has the same mechanism of action as Prozac increasing serotonin as a natural amino acid without extreme dependence and side effects. There are natural alternatives. There are ways to improve your mental state without resorting to heavy psychotic drugs so I would advise you to be strong and look for them. I support you all the way and want to wish you best of luck.

 

Thanks for that.

One concern I have is that 5-HTP has been reported to have many side effects of its own and that it can make OCD and depression even worse.

Another concern is that trying to come off again might actually kill me! Last time it sent me pretty much manic and I think it has all screwed my nervous system up to a point were it can't recover.

 

So I did take my first dose of 5-HTP yesterday along with Vitamin B complex which increases its bioavailability and I have very mixed feelings, on the one hand, it completely eliminated my anxiety. I mean gone completely gone and I had pretty severe anxiety so that was a blessing. I haven't been anxiety-free since 2016 and it did improve my mood a lot and bring me a lot of happiness, but on the other hand that mood improvement seemed more like I was high on hardcore drugs, it didn't really feel natural or organic, it even seemed like it was hard to distinguish reality at times. As far as my sleep goes it was hard to fall asleep, but then I did get some quality sleep with very vivid and realistic dreams. And I also experienced some side effects like nausea and pressure in my head, some people say it's a pretty common side effect until your body gets used to extra serotonin and that it goes away in a week or so. I will see. For now I will keep the dose at one tablet a day and if the side effects continue I will lower the dose to half the tablet.

I also will stop using Curcumin since it increases serotonin and dopamine. I also heard that some of the side effects I experience are common after being off Paroxetine so that could be the reason as well. We will see. So take that for what you will, it's just my personal experience so far.

So yes it seems like 5-HTP does have side effects, none of them seem as severe as Prozac though which increases the risk of suicide especially in young people under 25, seizures, mania, serotonin syndrome, etc.

Also if you had so many problems coming off of it you are better suited to talk to a medical professional about how to lower the dosage and how to replace your medication. I am just mentally ill loser on the Tinnitus Talk forum after all, just someone who has interest in research and science.

Also, I worded my response kind of wrong. 5-HTP isn't the only option for you. There are a lot of ways to increase serotonin, dopamine, and noradrenaline. Just some of those include St John's Wort (serotonin), Curcumin (serotonin and dopamine), L-tyrosine (dopamine and noradrenaline), SAMe (serotonin), L-theanine (serotonin and dopamine) etc. So you need to really pick the best suited option yourself and see what works for you. But if you think coming off Prozac can be deadly for you, you really need to ask yourself if experimenting with yourself is worth the risk.

These are just my general thoughts. Take care. If you have any questions don't hesitate to write to me.

Also in case you have anxiety this article lists 25 natural medicines for anxiety symptoms:
https://www.healthline.com/health/anxiety/supplements-for-anxiety#herbal-supplements

 

Sorry but there's no way 5-HTP caused all those effects for you just after one dose.

You experienced:
-placebo
&
-nocebo

 

It's possible I guess,but I'm not placebo kind of guy. I have used NR for three months after multiple forum members said that it improved their hearing and tinnitus and sincerely believed with all my heart that it would improve my hearing, but it didn't do anything useful for me. I have used Curcumin for 3 to 4 months believing that it will guarantee improve my hearing by increasing BDNF and restoring my neurons, but it didn't do jackshit as far as hearing improvement goes so I'm not really the type of person that really feels the placebo effect.

I took the second dose of 5-HTP today and there are objective side effects I experienced. My leg twitched today, my family members were nearby when that happened so that's an objective fact. My pupils also got larger than they usually are, my family was also the witnesses of it. I also feel high as hell second day in a row in the way that I didn't feel even from serious antipsychotics and antidepressants and my happiness has once again turned to emotional numbness so if those side effects don't subside fast I think it's fair to say my 5-HTP experiment was a complete failure and I have to stop taking it or significantly lower the dose.

Can anybody even tell me is there any interaction between Risperidone and 5-HTP? I checked all of the websites for interactions and they said there isn't, but I'm starting to doubt it.

I'm starting to think that slowly lowering the dose of my antipsychotic medication and going cold turkey is the way to go. I don't want to feel high. I want to feel normal. I want to feel like my old self again. I want to experience the multitude of feelings again, not synthetic happiness or emotional numbness.

Fuck I miss my old self before I damaged my hearing. That happy, confident guy that was full of joy, physically and emotionally fit for life and enjoyed life like hell is pretty much dead. Fucking tinnitus and hearing loss and psychological disorders that were mediated by heavily psychotic drugs and loss of closest of my family members have ruined all of that. I'm suffering so much and my doctors don't seem to give a single care.

 

I *also* had a very weird and immediate reaction to a single dose of Lexapro. My pupils changed (my mother was also there and observed it as well) and I got twitchy and a sunburn type nerve pain. I thought at first it must have been an allergic reaction but then I tried another SSRI and I also had strange similar immediate side effects.

My GP referred me to a psychiatrist who actually had seen that before--though rare she said. She had me undergo genetic testing and it was determined I have homozygous mutations in the serotonin receptor, MAO-A, and serotonin transport protein genes (as well as some cytochrome drug metabolism genes). I wonder if you may have something like that, too.

The only thing she could offer me, in fact, was benzos for my panic attacks but I declined because I was trying to rehab my vestibular system at the time. I no longer have panic attacks at least, though my hearing issues are severely depressing to say the least.

I can really relate to what you wrote. I also feel like I used to be so adventurous, curious about everything and just joyful. People will dismiss hearing and inner ear issues as not life threatening but they are certainly life destroying.

It makes me sad to read about people in their 20s going through this as it's supposed to be a time to start to find yourself. I hope a cure comes for all of us soon. I think we are really close honestly.

 

I am way too young to have this.

 

Thank you for your support and encouraging words. I really hope there's a light at the end of the tunnel. This hearing loss really created a butterfly effect of problems for me. I hope we will have hearing loss and tinnitus cured in the next 5-10 years with so many serious players in the game like Frequency, Audion, Hough Ear, Decibel, Otonomy and now Pipeline Therapeutics that work on multiple ways to address hearing loss including hair cell regeneration, synapse and spiral ganglion neurons regeneration or auditory neuron regeneration. I think hope is still alive especially with the pace technology is progressing right now.

I'm starting to think that maybe the case may be I have some homozygous mutation and in addition to that I'm actually starting to think some of the side effects I experience may be from quitting Paroxetine so abruptly and not 5-HTP, but in both cases, I'm stopping both for now.

I'm actually experiencing some serious severe brain zaps every few seconds accompanied with dizziness today so that is pretty terrifying and worrying. I didn't even know about this side effect until today.

I read the Lithuanian depression forum and it seems very common when it comes to Paroxetine withdrawal symptoms.

https://activerecoverytms.com/brain-zaps-the-startling-truth-about-stopping-antidepressants/

"Many antidepressants retain serotonin in the brain for longer periods of time than natural, and when the serotonin levels are suddenly decreased, it causes some instability in the brain, causing it to misfire or “zap.” Many wonder “how long do brain zaps last?” The answer to that question depends on the medication in question and its half-life, which is how long it takes to leave the body."

It's not something doctors really talk about then you start using this dangerous poison, is it? So that's another warning for those thinking about starting antidepressants especially SSRIs.

In any case, I really hope it goes away when the body adapts to a different neurotransmitter balance. If it doesn't go away in a few days or max a week or two I guess I will be forced to go to the medical professional for advice. Logically I think it should go away as soon as the body detoxes and gets rid of the extra serotonin, bringing the neurotransmitter balance to new normal, but I will see either way. I haven't slept at all tonight and I haven't felt this horrible in a long time. And then doctors get offended when antidepressants are described as hardcore drugs.

 

In my opinion it's quite possible/probable your side effects were from abruptly quitting anti depressants. The brain needs time to re-adjust. If you can see a doctor (psychiatrist maybe) familiar with how to taper, do that.

 

Most doctors have no idea about lowering dosages, and they would just simply replace a medication with another mediction. Their normal advice is 4-6 weeks to come off of prozac!! In reality it's more like years, especially for someone like me who has been on this stuff for 20 years. Going by some online withdrawl forums it could be as much as 4-5 years for me.

I don't know what to do for the best now. I just feel like I have been screwed by the medical community. I find it very hard to trust doctors now.

I've had some brain zaps over the last few months, but not every few seconds. They are terrifying!! Bring my head completely off of the pillow!

In my opinion they are just one more reason for why anti depressants should be banned for all but the most severe cases. They do way more harm than good and have wrecked many people's lives. People find it hard to get off of them and have been turned into junkies of a sort.

 

I miss my old self too. But things will never be the same. They can't be the same. Wounds leave scars. And as time passes, life experiences have a big impact on ourselves and on our psychology. We have changed. Each loss has an influence on oneself, especially if it is a sensitive person. I am and I have changed. I wish I could go back, but it's like wishing to turn back time. It is not possible.

 

Unfortunately brain zaps can hang around long after the medication leaves the body, many people can experience brain zaps for years. Yes years!! I have had brain zaps continuously for over 8 months now, roughly 8 an hour.

The saying that time heals is no less true in this case. Brain zaps happen because the brain is trying to adjust to the change, in most cases they are harmless. They should eventually go away, but the duration of brain zaps depend on many factors, however after some time they should subside and disappear.

I understand your reluctance to reach out for help to the medical profession, I had a Dr try and give me Klonopin for mine, and mine was caused by this drug.

So be careful out there!!!

 

This is interesting: it questions the chemical inbalance theory. The article is titled
30 years after Prozac arrived, we still buy the lie that chemical imbalances cause depression

https://qz.com/1162154/30-years-aft...ie-that-chemical-imbalances-cause-depression/

 

So coming off completely off Paroxetine and 5-HTP caused me insane anxiety. I can't sit still, I'm racing, I'm pacing, I'm also extremely angry and on the edge, because I'm mad at my mother for putting me through this, it was my mother who decided to hospitalize me and put me on this poison in 2016, because I was crying and sad, because I got tinnitus and hidden hearing loss my thought is how the fuck was I supposed to react, be happy that I messed up the most complex sensory organ in human body that has no cure? Be happy that I will be able to hear music clear again or enjoy the movie or a game without missing half the dialogue? Be happy that I can't hear shit when there is background noise? After they hospitalized me they put me on insane doses of antidepressants like 3 tablets of risperidone and 2 of paroxetine what in the actual fuck was this dosage?

My brother in law who committed suicide and suffered from schizophrenia only drank like 1 to half a tablet of risperidone and I was put on 3. This was complete incompetence of medical doctors and it messed up my psychology, mental state and well being permanently. I never had anxiety this big or insane when I was not on antidepressants and antipsychotic medication and I mean NEVER in my entire life and this anxiety lasts for years and years and years, this suffering never ends. How am I supposed to live and function as a human being? It's impossible not to mention it made me impotent, have involuntary movements of my arms, become fat, become emotionally numb. This poison should be banned for anyone who is under the age of 18 and allowed only for the most severe cases of depression and psychosis for people over age 18.

I know my mother wanted for me to feel better, but what she did is experiment on me and my brain and the result of that is that I am a mess of a human being now, a complete failure who can't be a productive member of society at this point. If Astaxanthin doesn't help me improve hearing I'm really considering ending it.

Sorry for the rant, but I have no one who listens to me or cares about my suffering, I only have this forum.

 

Another article on Prozac (from 2007):

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2007/may/13/socialcare.medicineandhealth

"All good things come to an end, though, and in 2001, Prozac lost its patent. Eli Lilly lost $35m of its market value in one day - and 90 per cent of its Prozac prescriptions in a single year. Eli Lilly has now come back with Cymbalta, which it hopes will be the next Prozac. This was approved by America's Food & Drug Administration despite another very shaky start. Traci Johnson, a healthy 19-year-old college student, hung herself in the Eli Lilly laboratory while testing the drug at high doses, in return for $150 a day."

On Traci Johnson:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2004-04-14-0404140248-story.html

 

Interesting articles about tapering off of ADs:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...epressants-is-there-a-better-way-to-quit-them

https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/0...r-mark-horowitz-tapering-off-antidepressants/

 

This is a really heavy burden. I'm sorry you are going through this. What a mess.

I wonder if Magnesium, especially a well absorbed one, would help some of your withdrawal symptoms.

Antidepressant withdrawal does get better from what i understand, it can just take awhile.

I also really believe they are in the process of solving most of our hearing problems. It's so hard to be patient but I know we will all look back at this nightmare one day and have it behind us.

 

I remember you talking about not all ototoxic drugs being the same. I can't find the post and thread where you said it, but what does it mean in terms of future treatments/cures if my tinnitus was brought on by a reaction to an SSRI? I think you said that it doesn't mean the hair cells were damaged. If not what could the upcoming possible future drug treatments do for me?

 

If you have no other hearing issues, whether on extended audiogram or speech in noise problems, then maybe screwing with your neurotransmitters with antidepressants affected your GABA/glutamate balance and your receptors. Note: this is just my speculation. As far as treatment for this perhaps time or maybe Otonomy OTO-313 may help this.

 

I am yet to have a hearing test. It seems impossible to get an extended one where I am. It wouldn't surprise me if i have hearing loss though. Would this suggest damaged hair cells?

 

If you had an abnormal extended audiogram, it would suggest damaged hair cells.

 

OK. What would be considered an abnormal extended audiogram for an almost 50 year old man?

 

Not sure. An audiologist would know though.

 

Prozac Nation? Is the Party Over? (from 2004)
https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/0906/119.html#c24f55649e81

The quotes below stood out for me: How I wish I had been more aware of all this way back then in 2004.

"There are three stages in the life of a new mental health drug: euphoria, then medical doubts, then lawsuits."

"The gaping loophole in our drug safety system," says Glenmullen, "is long-term safety. It takes decades for enough consumers to have had ill effects for problems to come to the authorities' attention."

 

Amen. Addiction psychiatrists told me that only now they are starting to see the long term effects of pregabalin. It was marketed as a wonder drug initially. For me it turned out to be an ongoing horror story

 

Gabapentin is turning out to be the same horror story, this is not surprising as they are both gabapentinoids. I was informed pregabalin was the lesser of the two evils years ago but from what I have read and heard both drugs can cause horror stories just like Benzodiazepines.