Chiropractor

Hi @just1morething

Botox is an interesting idea. The doctor who gave me trigger point injections suggested that I try it. I never bothered. As far as I understand, the effects are temporary; so in that sense, there is limited downside. If you go through with Botox, do let us know how it works out for you.

All the best, Golly.

 

I came across this article today; It could pertain to people with neck disorders & tinnitus like myself.

Massage and stretching
Massage and stretching of the neck and masticatory muscles have been associated with significant improvement in tinnitus.59 Patients with somatic tinnitus can have symptoms of cervical spine disorders, including head, neck, and shoulder pain as well as limitations in sideways bending and rotation. Treating jaw and neck disorders has beneficial effects on tinnitus. Injecting lidocaine into jaw muscles, such as the lateral pterygoid, also reduces tinnitus.

Hello @Golly - I will update on the botox consult in a couple days. I'm trying physical therapy first.

 

i have neck problums too maybe there is a connection to this T thing..

 

I went to a neurologist yesterday and discussed botox injections, trigger point injections, etc. He was very nice and open to trying things to help my tinnitus. I ended up having lidocaine injections to the areas around my ear and neck that when pressed on seemed to raise my tinnitus volume. The botox injections would cost about $1000 and could take up to 4 weeks to know the results, so I decided to delay that and go with lidocaine instead.

I am looking at somatic tinnitus for now from the neck and masticatory muscles. I did remember something that helped my neck in the past and that is lay on your back in your bed and let your head hang down over the edge. This seemed to help counteract the poor posture many of us have being in front of a computer reading TT . I think the muscles of the neck can be a big factor for some of us raising the T volume significantly. At least that is my current opinion. My T seems very low today, but what will it be tomorrow? I also seen a CMT today to try to loosen up my tight neck muscles.

Another interesting post I found on another forum pertaining to somatic tinnitus:

1. See an ENT who specializes in tinnitus. There aren't many. He/she will diagnose your condition by yanking your head around. It won't help much, but it will get a you a script for PT.

2. See a PT who specializes in manipulation. Mine also prescribed a few mild exercises, but her best trick was loosening my neck with mild (hand) traction and using a "wedge" to loosen the connective tissue down my back. This ended the crepitis (the scraping sound you can hear when you turn your head) and improved my posture tremendously.

3. See a massage therapist who specializes in myofascial trigger point release. That's not the same as "myofascial release"--they're not related, except in name. The words "trigger point" are key. There is no way to just stretch out or exercise a trigger point. If you can't find a therapist, get the treatment books through Amazon (sorry, can't remember the name right now).

4. See an occupational therapist. Mine helped me sit at the PC better and gave me some more stretches and exercises. Only took one session.

5. If you have TMJ, get it treated. I went to the Tufts center in Boston, which was marvelous. TMJ is highly related to neck problems. (I got an appliance to stop nightly grinding and intraoral PT to relax jaw muscles.)

 

So did all these therapies help reduce your tinnitus?

 

Yes, I don't have the loud and annoying hissing I had yesterday. I am not sure what all helped but I would recommend laying sideways on your bed on your back and letting your head hang down over the edge to stretch your neck muscles. I would have to look at my neck relief book to know how long to do this...unsure. It may sound simplistic, but if it helps that's all that matters. PT and/or massage therapy could be of benefit also. I also did take some gabapentin + clonazepam to help with nerve pain. The jury is out on the lidocaine injections for now.

I also got a new cervical pillow, but I'm not sure how much they help.

 

Well I had 1 very quiet day ( I thought I was cured) & I went to visit someone and I was back to normal it seemed.
But now the hissing is back in full force and I am struggling to deal with it again. I really thought it was cervical based T but now not sure. It was great to be quiet for a day but the reason is unknown. Maybe my brain allowed it to happen for a day and some type of brain drug would be worth trying again. I'd like to try AUT00063 if it was available here.

I may try something longer acting on the trigger points for my tinnitus. Until then I will wear this:

Edit: I will be seeing a trigger point massage therapist Friday to see if that helps. She understands how tinnitus can be interfering with your life and that something needs to be done. Nothing guaranteed though, as it may not be muscular based. I had a lot of noise exposure also.

 

So, as someone whos neck cracks every single time I turn it to the right (popping/cracking grinding sound), Someone with very possible TMJ (as confirmed by dentist, getting a night guard on the 12th. jaw pops cracks/when opened. had braces and 4 teeth removed in 2006ish) someone with possibly poor posture (sitting on a pc up to 12+ hours a day), & someone with perfect normal hearing ... should I continue to see a chriopractor + massage therapist? I have been before, months ago and it was the basic neck cracking procedure but I gave it up after 5 or so visits and no improvement..... do I sound like the classic case of somatic T?

 

@baddream similar here. Moderate T in left ear. If I turn my head right OR left the hiss in left ear doubles, or more. Whiplash 10 years ago gives very stiff neck once a year, with big flare up 4 weeks ago. Have never seen a chiro. I'm teeth grinder at night too. From what I've read TMJ/TMD and neck issues together are often(?) major players in somatic T. Also, otolaryngologist I saw last week said recent T spike unlikely attributable to recent noise exposure, saying noise protection + the considerable wax he pulled out of both ears likely gave me ~30 dB of attenuation during a blues fest. Hoping here that chipping away at a few of these items might help a bit. Need better sleep...LOL. There have been many days over past few years when I've been bothered little and slept well even though I could hear mild ringing with head on pillow.

 

I have same problems, and haven't tried a chiropractor yet but I just made an appointment with one for next Tuesday. I've noticed that when my T is really bad (like yesterday), it seems my neck and shoulders are especially painful and my jaw aches. I'm hoping if I can fix the neck problems, maybe the T will diminish...I don't even care if goes totally away, I just want the screeching days to stop!!

 

I have noticed the exact same thing: neck/back/jaw/face are sore on bad T days. I am not sure if the soreness causes the tinnitus; or if there is an underlying stress factor that causes both the soreness and the tinnitus.

-Golly

 

I also have bad days when I'm sore in the neck and shoulders.

I recently tried a chiropractor to see if it would help, he cracked my neck and back and did loads of poking around to see where my 'misalignments' were. I have a few old rugby injuries, he told me that one of my ribs was out of alignment needed to be put back into place as it was causing a recurring muscle injury I have. He did seem to know what he was doing to find the correct place each time.

I went four times, each time the cracking was less noisy, but zero difference to my T. I gave up on it because the fourth time he just did my back and neck, felt around and said things seemed a lot better, and I was in and out in 10 minutes. Too much money to pay in my eyes unless it's having a big difference, although my neck was very clicky and noisy before and it really isn't that noisy at all now.

 

Steve, do you think your T is noise-induced or from neck/jaw problems?

 

Well, I think it's noise induced but I'm not certain. That's what a fairly useless ENT told me 11 years ago after seeing a slight dip in my hearing chart.

In reality I've had a few neck and head injuries that could be part of it (compressed neck, blow to the jaw from a steel girder, torn muscle in shoulder / neck area), and it came on after getting flu that totally blocked my ears. Add that to years of clubbing and loud music and take your best guess.

 

I really wish chiropractors would know their limitations. They can make our bodies physically feel wonderful, but they go too far when they start to make outrageous claims of being able to cure just about any ailment just by manipulating the spine.

When I go to the chiro, he can make my back feel 10 years younger, but it's done zilch for my tinnitus. I really wish it worked. But I have yet to read a success story about chiros and tinnitus.

 

Hi there, I'm a committed Chiro patient- I see my guy once a month without fail and have done so for years and I credit him for keeping my back in really good condition. That said, chiro isn't for everyone, but for me, it just works. I thought about the chiro-tinnitus connection. My understanding is that chiros work to ensure the nervous system is unimpinged, so it can get on with the business of keeping you well, and impingements on the nervous system cause disease and pain. I suspect tinnitus has something to do with misfiring or damaged nerves, so I was really expecting my Chiro to help with tinnitus, but the best he could do was say " err..good luck with that...." . Great. However, he has actually started working regularly on my neck each time, and although like MattK there's absolutely zero improvement in the T to date. I don't have great expectations about the Chiropractic treatment working for the T...but I cant see it doing any harm either. Would love to report a win in a few months but I'm not counting on it.

 

Roger, like you, I am committed to chiropractic treatments as well. In fact, I see my chiropractor at least every Friday, and sometimes even twice a week. I've been doing this for years now. I like to get at least one adjustment per week. However, doing so did not prevent my tinnitus, nor has it improved it. My chiropractor is sure that his neck adjustments will eventually make my tinnitus go away. I'm very skeptical. He's done wonders as far as making my body feel great, but tinnitus is a different story. Your chiropractor at least seems to realize there is a limitation on what chiropractic treatment can do. My chiro, as much as I love the guy, seems to think he can do just about anything.

So like you, I am continuing to go. In fact, it can do good in that making our bodies feel good physically can help us feel better emotionally and feel less stress. So I suppose it can help in an indirect way... but otherwise, our only real hope is that the tinnitus will go away on its own, or use the coping methods/treatments that are currently available with hope that as time passes, the medical treatments will continue to improve and advance towards a cure or very close.

 

As a physician you should know your limits. Chiropractors do not have the training to understand how the ear works - period. I really have a problem with people who say that they know how to treat T and HL, but have no idea what the root cause of the disease process is. Now if they say that their treatment generally relaxes you or increases your well-being, and that's what helps with your HL and T, then that's a legitimate claim. Increased well-being does make T and HL better - or makes the symptoms more tolerable. However if your chiropractor acts as if they have some understanding of the pathophysiology of HL and T - buyer beware! Its like flipping a coin, they could make it better (by increasing relaxation and well-being) or they could make it worse (by compromising cochlear blood supply, triggering a spasm in the muscles of your middle ear, etc)

 

I agree with this. I went to a Chiropractor 7 years ago for the first time to get relief from sciatic pain which he did not successfully treat.

The Chiropractor cracked my neck (he said he adjusted C2) and within a few hours I had developed loud pulsatile tinnitus in both ears and my blood pressure rose substantially. The tinnitus has been with me 24 hours a day for 7 years and after much research it was concluded by medical specialists that the tinnitus was instigated by the neck adjustment that caused injury. The chiropractor of course denied that this could happen.

I can alter the pitch and loudness of the pulsatile tinnitus by applying pressure to the face and head or even clenching my jaw. I have exhausted all avenues to rid myself of this disturbing affliction and am now resigned to a life of listening to a high pitched ring that pulses in time with my heart beat.

I will never use nor recommend a Chiropractor .....

 

i have tinnitus for about one month it started with a low pitch but now it,s higher i went to a chiro recently and he used the electro thing on me and my tinnutis increased .

 

I've recently started to see chiropractor and it's helped. I saw 4 other ones prior to his one, who were terrible.

First one as "too rough" (though he did clear my stepmother from dizziness)

Second one suggested I had bppv and did the lightest adjustment posible

Third one took x-rays, told me I had scoliosis (which I knew) and then reccommended me a "neurologist" which ended up being a psychiatrist. No thaks!

Fourth one was treating me for his speciality, which was vertigo, and I was feeling worse. He was trying to adjust my atlas without any xrays to go on and suggested this was the cause. I kept getting muscle spasms the next day. No improvements on T either. I actually almost did atlas orthogonal, until the crocked welness place tried to rob me of $5k -- which I am still fighting them for after they charged my credit card without my authorization.

Found the last one on reccommendation from a friend who works in a hospital. Found out this chiro practiced chinese medicine as well as having his own spot on the local tv channel. He took a digital xray and told me the following:

-My head as not on atlas straight (as I expected)
-A vertabrae in my neck was INVERTED! He suggested this happend from either PT or a wrong adjustment
-Disc degeneration either at C5 or C7, which could be trapping a nerve. Said this might have been from recent neck trauma
-Improper posture... my neck had absolutely no curve to it and was way too straight.
-Scoliosis as well as a potential lower disc problem in my back.

I've beeen seeing him for 3 weeks and what a improvement! Better (but not perfect) balance. Hands less shakey. Sitting up in chair better and better posture. While we were doing adjustments, we made discoveries. One of which was that my jaw was not straight, so I may hae potential TMJ. I started grinding my teeth right before the "T" started so we suspect this was it. He tried making the adjusment and "T" improved 30-40%. Unfortunately, that was it but I still will see him a few more times.

 

Hi just1morething,
The lidocaine they use for trigger point injections is a drug that has been long known to affect tinnitus.
http://www.ata.org/sites/ata.org/fi...s/a_new_look_at_lidocaine_sanders_sept_00.pdf

In addition, the trigger point injections with botox often also contain lidocaine. The lidocaine is typically used with the botox injections because it alleviates pain with they do the injections.

Last year I made a spreadsheet with all possible causes of the tinnitus, and the rationale for why the cause is feasible, and what I could do to remedy it. At the time, I was also having severe neck pain. The list included such areas as: infection in a root canal, cervical/neck issues, Eustachian tube issues due to allergies or infection, TMJ, bruxism, vitamin D or B deficiency, and even kidney damage due to antibiotics. One by one I worked on each possible cause. For the first time in my life I visited a lot of doctors. What I found was that 1. there are some really bad doctors in Miami and 2nd/3rd opinions can be the key to answers 2. that persistence does pay off because I have reduced the ringing considerably.

To elaborate on the 'bad doctors', I had one ENT tell me I had hearing damage (his sound booth was antiquated and the woman doing the testing was not qualified) , then two more doctors and a independent audiologist tell me my hearing was great. Also on my journey, I had one Endodontist tell me to pull a tooth because the root was cracked. Two subsequent Endodontist told me that the tooth was perfectly OK. Oh, and I allowed an allergist to give me a shot of Prednisone, which made the ringing much much worse for over two weeks. I called his office, and nobody could tell me the dosage of the shot. I had my primary care physican call, and the allergist nurse finally figured out what they gave me. My primary told me it was way too high of a dosage. So my lesson learned is to get 2nd/3rd opinions, and too also make sure you have all of the information on the proposed treatment (dosage etc).

Here are the areas that seemed to make the most improvement for my tinnitus:
1. I found a Prosthodontist (like a dentist but they have two extra years of training) who fixed my bite. My bite was high on one side. This has helped both my neck pain and my jaw stress. He also made me a night guard which I faithfully wear at night. I used to love my previous dentist.. nice guy, but in hindsight, a terrible dentist. 2nd and 3rd opinions are key.
2. I have a regular chiropractor (with whom I have a negotiated cash price) that I see 2-3 times per week. The doctor identified my particular muscles that tend to pull my C1/C2 out of alignment. (I also had upper and lower spine MRIs to check for stenosis which I do have at C6/7 but is probably not a tinnitus issue)
3. I found a doctor whose focus is spine & pain, who worked with me to test botox on my jaw (no effect) and also on specific back & neck muscles. This does not eliminate the ringing, but I do think it has reduced my neck pain, which lowers stress and therefore ringing volume.
4. I have started allergy shots because I seem to have Eustachian tube issues. I feel a glug-glug in my ears when I bend over. And I wake with a stuffed up nose in the AM. The jury is still out on whether the allergy shots will help.
5. I have always been a very healthy eater. And with the start of the teeth issues, and subsequent tinnitus I began eating more and more anti-inflammatory foods such as ginger root tea and turmeric. I found that the salicylates in these foods doubled the volume of my ringing. I am now on a vegetarian but low salicylate diet (lots of lentils, beans etc). For those of you wondering if this would apply to you; If taking asprin (which is salicylic acid) makes your ringing noticeably worse, then high salicylate diets will do the same.
Supposedly a significant percentage of people do have salicylate sensitivities/intolerance. This salicylate intolerance could be considered comparable to people who are lactose intolerant. Similarly, people who have dairy sensitivities lack the enzymes (or the enzymes are weak) to bind to/digest lactose (dairy). In addition, these sensitivities can be compounded by leaky gut. Leaky gut basically means that you have damaged your stomach lining. The stress of the root canals, the ibuprofen etc could have contributed to leaky gut issues.
6. Also in line with the salicylate sensitivity, I take regular Epsom Salt baths now. The Magnesium Sulfate works to eliminate salicylates (it works with the PST enzyme to bind with toxins) and has a significant impact on the ringing volume. I use 3-4 full cups of Epsom Salt and soak for a good 30-40 minutes.
7. I try to continue masking whenever possible. The theory is that your brain has been trained to hear this pitch, so after eliminating other factors, retraining your brain with masking may also be important. I was also told this by an audiologist here in Miami that specializes in tinnitus for over 20 years.

My apologies for the super long post (and any spelling or grammar errors), but maybe someone will find this helpful. Feel free to private message me if any one would like details on any of this. My ears still ring, at a lower volume, and I have some days that are very quiet. I'm hopeful that with less aggravation (jaw, neck, foods, etc), the volume will continue to subside.

 

You know when you throw all this info up in the air and it comes down its kind of one like a rubrics cube! All I bled up! These people who go doctor shopping must have fat wallets as it seems that way. I'm kind of stuck with group health plan and they are pretty stingy about who you see and what for. My own doctor admitted to me that he has never dealt with a case like mine and so I truly feel kind of lost in this world of what to do? I visited there ENT specialist and when finished with that visit I just thought what a waist of time. Oh well got to locate a Great Chriroprator and see if that will help. Thanks for all the info and ring a ding

 

(Note my T is noise induced, 50 decibel in volume, both ears, mainly right. But spiked heavily 9 months back post dental work (root canal on lower, and wistom tooth removal upper jaw). Could have been the drill nose. Or the other weird link (sensory nerves that cross with audio nerves in the dorsal cochlear). Just as an FYI given below. Im 36. Gym daily. Good health)



Just to add comment. Went to a Chiropractor, super friendly. 12 sessions I think in total.


She put back first rib, reallocated various spinal bits, essentially did her job

She essentially told me my jaw IS misaligned. Something the dentist denied. The dentist only focues on the immediate bite, which in mine is normal. Yet when I open the jaw, you can actually see the muscles are way stronger on the left hand side, and loose right hand. Hences pulls.

She did a great deal of work loosening the facial muscles, working on aligning the jaw (many people do not realise they can work TMJ disorders. Just not with splints etc but bone / muscle corrections).



Did I get any relief?


No. I still have extreamly loud tinnitus.


HOWEVER


She has actually proven something. Now

1. When I bite, like many noise induced T sufferers, it spikes. Mine does on the right side where the upper dental work took place. But further
   
   
2. When I crush my neck right back, to crush my upper spine, I can modulate the tinnitus. It sort of like a spring, gets slightly quieter, when I release the neck, fires out (normally its constant). Hence the C2 / C1 area, modulates the noise and effects it.
   
   
3. I have found that 3 fingers width, to both of your ears, there is a nerve (Not actually Mallixary) that connects to that spine area.
   
   
4. I believe its that nerve, which connects to the C2 area, and right by the ear, that’s miss firing. NOT anything to do with my hearing nerves. That one.
   

So its help me pin point it.


Since then the dentist refered me to a TMJ specialist WHICH WAS REJECTED. THEY SAID I HAVE TO SEE AN ENT. Which obviously ive done many times. The nasty people just refuse to even x-ray the jaw area, / review facial nerves. As like many comments above – I AM POSITIVE that a nerve block done on nerves around my upper teeth, or back of neck WILL SILENCE THIS THING.


So now im basically sure of a defective SENSORY nerve, but the ENT wont help, the dentist wont help, and the facial pain specialist (as it is a sort of pain, phantom, type biofeedback) wont do anything. Despite a ton of evidence that blocking these faulty nerves will silence the thing.


Its definitely a C2 / upper nerve defect. Now maybe you NEED noise induced hearing loss first, then this comes second to make it louder (the dorsal cochlear effect) but if anyone knows of anyone in the UK that can help with nerve blocks / actually review tinnitus as a form of facial nerve defect, please PM me


(note its no surpise that when I experienced the noise induced hearing loss, 24 hours before I had a Abcess burst that upper jaw side, where the wisdom tooth was removed. Believe noise + sensory nerve defect caused many forms of T. Hence why when we bite, it spikes the noise, when it crosses over to sensory nerve areas vs auditory).


PS if anyone is London based - The Fenchurch Chiropractor clinic is really good. Next to Fitness First. Besides not helping the tinnitus, my back has never felt better!!!!

 

Try to get an MRI on tmj joints and jaw as it will show if anything is misaligned and condyles?? Have slipped out of place.

 

I have had very good results with my chiropractor. It seems when he adjusts the top 3 vertebrae in my neck, I feel instant relief. The chiropractor also informed me of the 1st well known case that brought chiropractic care into the mainstream was of a man who had fallen off of his horse and suddenly became deaf. The guy landed on his head and as such, disrupted the necks alignment. A several treatments, the man could hear again. My chiropractor also said that the most common field of work that experience tinnitus is welding. As explained, welders tend to use a forward motion with their heads to drop the welders shield. However, they do not use the opposite force when raising the mask. This creates an unbalanced motion and over the course of their careers, tinnitus due to neck misalignment sets it as well as hearing loss in some instances.

I hope someone finds this useful.

Greg

 

How long does the relief last?

 

Can I say re real TMJD treatment there is no quick fix,trust me ive got the T shirt and thousands of pounds later.

My final port of call was a Dr Hedges the best man in the UK for TMJ....his diagnosis like others re physical and MRI I have bad TMJD ..the treatment for all his cases is different Bite plates as the treatment progresses ,the use of Braces adjusted as treatment progresses,time frame of treatment 2 and a half to 3 years and many visits cost £10,ooo

So a few years ago I would have gone for it ,too late financially now. The £4500 I spent on ACneuro, would have helped nicely for a start ,the acupuncture ,the physios ,the Chiros..ete cte c the other dentists with their "you need a bite plate thatll fix it" all that money spent

 

I went to a Chiropractor once and didn't like it (before getting T), I started going to a physical therapist who specializes in Lymph draining massage. I've been gong twice a week for a couple of weeks and I think that yes, it helps. This week When she was working on my neck I had he impression I couldn't hear my T for a while. I don't know if the induces stress on my neck and back muscles, if it's the other way around but to tell you guys the truth it doesn't matter. I feel better when I go there and would suggest anyone with this condition to try a chiropractor/ good massage therapist.

 

Ten Thousand pounds for a brace? What does it do? What does it look like?