Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19) and Tinnitus

Discussion in 'Support' started by ajc, Feb 28, 2020.

    1. Lane

      Lane Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Single 25 mg. Dose of (Anticholinergic) Drug Promethazine
      @Ed209 -- I think a bigger problem is not enough attention is being placed on various therapeutic measures that have shown promise. And of course there's not enough focus on safe, inexpensive, and effective ways to improve the health of the immune system.
      Vaccinations are never going to be the full answer to COVID-19. The only solution is for people to look beyond the narrow paradigms of the vaccinecentric health care systems.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    2. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      beliefs are makyo and reality ignores them
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      @Ed209 is there any movement like this going on in the UK, and what are your thoughts?

      Vaccine passport apps could help us return to normal. First they need to solve the trust problem

      I'd say I'm conflicted. From a tech point of view, yes, these apps need to solve the privacy problem and knowing what I do about the domain space, they probably won't.

      Beyond that, this is just a culturally and conceptually interesting question to me. We've never considered having a "vaxx passport" for any of the stuff we vaxx for which is demonstrably more deadly or higher RO than COVID-19 (say, Measles). At the same time, none of those diseases have ever been endemic during the modern era when this tech is possible.

      To play devil's advocate for a moment, though, if we're going this route with COVID-19 vaccines, as in "as a society we are saying that you need to carry a digital vaccine passport if you want entrance into various private businesses", well, why wouldn't we also include influenza there? It's common, it's endemic, it kills ~a quarter million people globally in a good year, and we have well tested vaccines which, at worst, provide some measurable protection against being able to get sick or spread the disease to at risk people.

      I think these questions are interesting; it's actually easier for me to imagine the UK imposing "vaxx passport" mandates at a national level than in the US, where you would instantly have ~30 states suing the federal government over it. At the same time, there is very little in the US to prevent private businesses from requiring vaxx proof for entry, and I believe we're going to start seeing that happen. Of course, the regions that will adopt such measures without having legal battles over it, will generally line up with regions where vaxx rates are higher and people are already taking things seriously, because that's how this silly country operates.

      Curious if you're seeing movement on a push for or against "vaxx passports" there, and what your thoughts are, as someone who has been deeply personally impacted by this shitty virus.

      Looking at this as a basically socially liberal, fiscally conservative American centrist, I fully support the rights of private business, enterprise and personal domiciles to deny entry based on vaxx status. I don't necessarily have a conceptual problem with putting a legal framework around that, but, cynically, this sounds a lot like yet another database of my personal information that the government will have and then resell to various huge corporations without my knowledge and consent.

      There are technical solutions -- it's entirely possible for someone to posses a cryptographically signed passport which can both be used in this manner, and which the user can subsequently revoke all ability for anyone else to read or "have read" in the past. However, given how poorly our lawmakers understand tech in general, I am not very bullish on getting something like a really bulletproof, single national system. I think we're going to get different regions and pharmacies using everything from apps to different paper passes, it will be a mess, and just like with driver's licenses, whatever state has the easiest to counterfeit vaxx pass, will end up having a lot of counterfeited vaxx passes. "Oh yea, I got my shot in Texas before I drove up here to Brooklyn, yep".
       
      • Funny Funny x 1
    3. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      beliefs are makyo and reality ignores them
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      • Funny Funny x 1
    4. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      My first thoughts were to say I'm conflicted, and then when I looked down, it's exactly what you said :LOL:.

      I understand the objective of safeguarding as many people as possible, but at the same time, it is directly affecting peoples freedoms and civil liberties. It's quite the conundrum. I agree with your point that if COVID-19 is used as the basis for this, then why not other diseases?

      It is being pushed in this country and I'd say everyone is well aware of the idea. I've seen strong arguments for it and against it.

      When it comes to private properties, and businesses, etc, I believe they have every right to implement rules as they see fit. No one is forced to go to a private bar, for example. I think this is acceptable. However, I don’t see how it can be enforced on a national level by the government as it would impeach upon peoples right to freedom. I also don’t want more of my data in the hands of those who rule us.

      There is a way around the data problem, but it will sound like I am shilling a company by explaining. But I'll do it anyway :p. There's a company called Ocean Protocol who have created an innovative way for data owners to share their information with data consumers without anyone needing to see the raw data. This idea has allowed scientists and other interested parties to access datasets on corporate servers that were previously locked away. The amount of useful information that sits upon a server somewhere, unused, is truly staggering. The idea is to keep the data behind a firewall whilst AI models review it and then spit out model predictions or assessments based upon what's there. One example use-case is climate science.

      66CDABDA-0DB4-4DB7-9DB4-379E6F15D8B7.jpeg

      Anyway, I digress.
      If this were to be implemented then VeChain would be perfect for it as far as tech goes. Their whole ethos is to stop counterfeiting on not only consumer goods but drugs and medical equipment also. However, governments are notorious for f**king these kind of things up. They really are behind the times when it comes to tech, and I have little to no faith in their competency.
       
    5. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      beliefs are makyo and reality ignores them
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      This is interesting and appreciated; I work in a related field and I certainly thought about how we could leverage our own in house technology to solve this problem.

      NYS's solution is based on the blockchain. Fundamentally I think what's important is that people have full control over their data including compete revocation of it (invalidation of the vaxx pass as well as making it impossible to ever discern that it did exist). This is certainly possible with various cryptographic approaches, and not incompatible with also using a blockchain as a permanent ledger.

      Technically the thing that concerns me the most here in the US, is, lacking any federal guidance on this -- some states are doing paper passes, some states are doing state apps, etc. It's going to be a hodgepodge and that will make it a mess. If paper passes from, say, Alabama are notoriously easy to counterfeit, will bars/etc treat them with the same degree of incredulousness that they apply to IDs from notoriously easy to counterfeit states? The answer to that depends on how much regulatory tooth and nail is behind the statutes; in the case of booze, if you sell booze to someone with a fake ID you can still lose your liquor license over it. That's a strongly written law.

      NYS's app uses a custom blockchain as far as I can tell; I have mixed feelings there, but pretty strong feelings against using any publicly mined chain for this. Note though, that despite being an etherium miner at present, I think crypto is generally dumb and environmentally atrocious, and it's only now that we're starting to see some more reasonable applications of block ledgers.

      My belief in the stupidity of this will not stop me from using my RTX3080 to get ~$300/mo in passive income for as long as the hash rate makes that possible, though ;). Three more weeks and the card is paid off...

      I feel like in the UK you're likely to have better success with a "centralized" approach, but you lack our first and fourth amendments, and as a result it's more possible for your government to cram obnoxious security requirements down your throat.

      I guarantee that once bars start preventing people without vaxx passes from entering in somewhere like Michigan, instantly there will be groups of "protestors" with AR-15s standing across the street. This country is beyond broken.
       
    6. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      I agree about ownership of one’s data. Unfortunately, we live in a world now where data breaches are common. I had one about 6 weeks ago and had to change all my passwords.
      Yea, that sounds like a right mess to me. It will also create a black market for selling the fake vaccine passports.
      I much prefer proof-of-stake over mined blockchains because of the unnecessary energy usage of the latter. The potential is there for this technology to improve and solve problems within various sectors. The use-cases for such tech is plentiful and it goes far beyond being a replacement for fiat currencies (which most people assume is what they are all about).
      I've never understood the fascination with Ethereum beyond it being the primary hub for most blockchains. The gas fees are ridiculous and it's incredibly slow and unscalable. I'm surprised that many haven't jumped ship with the faster and infinitely cheaper alternatives that are now out there. A friend of mine also mines ETH using his graphics card. Do you use MetaMask?
      I could imagine there would be an escalation like that. There are cities within the UK where gun violence could be an issue, but nowhere near the scale you have it in the US.
       
    7. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      beliefs are makyo and reality ignores them
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      I've thought blockchain tech was cool from the get go, and crypto as currency has struck me as pretty dumb all along (ask me about not holding on to my BTC from ~2010, and having a mortgage in 2021 as a result ;) )

      So, I agree it's slow and unscaleable and I totally don't care, I just turn kilowatt hours into fractional coins and then convert that to USD at Coinbase, 0.1 ETH at a time.

      I pool mine with Sparkpool, it's really easy and they're doing some amount of cleverness to prevent their transactions being frontrun. I don't understand much about that side of things, other than "the etherium memepool is a dark, mysterious place full of bored teenagers and badass hackers, and if I was smarter and a criminal I'd probably be spending time running a frontrunner botnet".

      The idea of starting a pool has also occurred to me, but, ultimately these things are as hard to get off the ground as any other serious entrepreneurial operation, just as likely to fail, and right now it's comfortable to just take a check from someone else ;)

      I know, I know, I'll never get rich with that attitude :D
       
    8. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      I like your style :LOL:

      Another friend of mine, which you may be aware of, is approaching £1m from trading crypto assets.

      The money he is making is obscene. He has made hundreds per day from interest alone this week.
       
    9. Jack Straw
      Balanced

      Jack Straw Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      1990s
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Infection, Acoustic Trauma
      I find it baffling that at this point in the pandemic people are still arguing over whether COVID-19 is an issue. The virus is deadly, and if it doesn't kill you, it will leave you with lasting side effects. What else is there to argue?

      @Ed209 has given sufficient arguments here, but some people just can't see it or refuse to see it.

      To those who still think this is a hoax or "not that bad", stop reading conspiracy theory propaganda and read actual scientific published research.

      :banghead:
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
      • Like Like x 1
      • Funny Funny x 1
      • Winner Winner x 1
    10. PeteJ
      Depressed

      PeteJ Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma?
    11. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      beliefs are makyo and reality ignores them
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      Remember all the bullshit about suicides?

      Screenshot 2021-04-06 at 17.28.45.png

      Now that we have the actual data, nope, reverse is true? Just lol. Fuckin libertarian free market disinformation idiots.

      3000 less suicides in the us in 2020 vs 2019, a 7 percent drop.

      The Leading Causes of Death in the US for 2020
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Informative Informative x 1
    12. Tinker Bell

      Tinker Bell Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      SSHL from virus
      Very interesting.

      I am curious about the increased diabetes deaths. All other deaths follow similar trends to past years. Even unintentional injuries is a large increase but saw a similar increase between 2015 and 2016.
       
    13. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Speculation, but economic hardship is probably a big factor in diabetes deaths. Insulin is actually OTC in the US but prohibitively expensive for a lot of people. There are many reports of people underdosing to make their insulin last longer.

      I would be interested to see that data compared to countries where insulin is cheap or free.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    14. Juan

      Juan Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several causes
      Breaking news on AstraZeneca:

      Coronavirus live news: 'clear' link between rare clotting cases and AstraZeneca vaccine, EMA official says

      A senior official from the European Medicines Agency (EMA) has told an Italian daily it is “clear” that there is a link between the AstraZeneca vaccine and a rare form of blood clot but that the cause is still not known, Agence France-Presse is reporting from Rome.

      “In my opinion, we can say it now, it is clear there is a link with the vaccine. But we still do not know what causes this reaction,” the EMA head of vaccines, Marco Cavaleri, told Italy’s Il Messaggero newspaper.

      The official reportedly told the paper that Europe’s drug regulator would be making a statement on the issue “in the coming hours”.

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...be-eligible-for-vaccine-cases-rising-in-japan

      For the moment Norway and Denmark are the only countries that have stopped using the AstraZeneca vaccine completely. These are countries I respect and I am wondering why the rest of Europe keeps putting its citizens at risk.
       
      • Informative Informative x 2
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    15. Tinker Bell

      Tinker Bell Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      SSHL from virus
      I think you’re correct. We could probably look at past economic downturns and find similar patterns.

      That’s truly sad, especially given that diabetics are at a higher risk for death from COVID-19 too.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    16. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      Good to see you again, Tinker Bell. It’s nice to have a reasoned and rationalised thinker return to the fold.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    17. Tinker Bell

      Tinker Bell Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      SSHL from virus
      Thanks, Ed!
       
    18. Ken219
      Frustrated

      Ken219 Member

      Location:
      New York Area
      Tinnitus Since:
      Summer of 1990
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise exposure?
      Adding to truly sad is how the USA treat their disabled Veterans. Why are so many disabled Veterans begging for money on TV?
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Hug Hug x 1
    19. PeteJ
      Depressed

      PeteJ Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma?
      Sweden didn't have restrictions or at least enforce any. Yet, the country is still there. It's not one massive ghost town because of dead COVID-19 people.
       
    20. Juan

      Juan Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several causes
      That's true, Sweden used a different approach and the outcome was not much different.

      By the way, in Spain the government has stopped vaccinating with AstraZeneca for people under 60. I suspect that many people were rejecting that particular vaccine...
       
    21. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      By what metric has Sweden done well?

      First of all, the UK is approximately 243,610 sq km, while Sweden is approximately 450,295 sq km, which makes Sweden 85% larger than the UK for comparative purposes. Then we have to compare population density: the UK has around 66 million people living in it, whereas Sweden has around 10 million. That's a huge difference. The UK is also an international hub that has far more people crossing its borders.

      It's better to look at Sweden compared to its Nordic neighbours. When we do this, you can clearly see that Sweden has not faired well.

      Here’s the breakdown:

      Denmark, Norway, and Finland have had 3984 deaths, and have a combined population of around 17 million people.

      Sweden has had 13,578 deaths, and only have a population of 10 million. That's significantly more deaths per million of the population.

      Can you please explain how Sweden has done well?

      In percentage terms, 0.13% of Sweden’s population have died as opposed to 0.023% of the other three countries combined. That's a six-fold increase in deaths.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    22. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      I still sense that the anti-COVID-19 sentiment is strong here, but what is the alternative to using vaccines? Nobody has yet to give a credible alternative. It was always likely that there could be policy changes with the speed at which the vaccines were deployed. That is why I said at the beginning that I'd rather wait until more is known, but with what I now know, I'd take the vaccine over getting COVID-19 again. It's not a pleasant experience to feel like you're being suffocated just because you leant forwards. The long-term effects are also horrible.

      My friend spoke just like you and Pete, he thought it was all fake and believed all the stuff he read online. That is until his boss died and two of his workmates ended up in comas. I've never seen a person change their mind so quickly. He did a complete 180 from being a conspiracy theorist to getting a sick note from his Dr (for stress) so that he could get time off work. He was concerned he'd be next, as his workplace was rife with it and he didn't want to roll the dice to find out how he or his family would react to it.
       
    23. PeteJ
      Depressed

      PeteJ Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma?
      @Ed209, remember when I argued that PCR tests were flawed?

      Why are Austrian courts ruling against PCR tests?

      Austrian court overturns judgment: PCR test not suitable for diagnosis

      You never answered my question: how much research have you done, outside of watching CNN and the BBC plus your public health info channels?

      My local hospital has no one hospitalized for COVID-19 and only a couple over a month. How is that a pandemic emergency?

      We are locked down with stay at home orders yet lots of people are ignoring it, going to the park etc. Businesses are closing and going bankrupt? For what?
       
    24. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      Dear lord, Pete, just let it go. You keep repeating the same old tired arguments and come across as being very bitter. Anyone that can laugh at a post about people dying is a bit sick in my mind.

      There's nothing left to debate at this point; we've been around the houses about a hundred times. Everybody knows you think it's all a hoax, so I think it's time to move on. Nothing will change your mind, so any effort I make is a complete waste of my time, including this post.
       
      • Agree Agree x 4
    25. Robster
      Irritated

      Robster Member

      Location:
      South Gloucestershire, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      January 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma - MRI
      Some of the COVID-19 deniers just amazes me on this thread. I've decided just to put them on ignore so I only have to read the rational replies.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Funny Funny x 1
    26. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      beliefs are makyo and reality ignores them
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      It also cuts the post volume by like 60% ;)
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    27. PeteJ
      Depressed

      PeteJ Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma?
    28. PeteJ
      Depressed

      PeteJ Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma?
    29. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      I received a letter today to say I've gotta go for a chest X-ray in 3 weeks. I hope it shows an improvement and that my lungs are recovering.

      I still haven't been vaccinated yet, so my risk for catching it again will start to rise in the coming months.
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
    30. Lane

      Lane Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Single 25 mg. Dose of (Anticholinergic) Drug Promethazine
      I firmly believe nebulizing with very dilute amounts of hydrogen peroxide can prevent most cases of COVID-19, and other viral infections as well. It's extraordinarily safe, and can be used as a preventative, or as an early treatment. People who use it, and doctors who treat their patients with it attest to this. -- Kinda blows the the paradigm of overly depending on vaccines out of the water.
       
Loading...

Share This Page