Elon Musk’s Neuralink Looking to Treat Tinnitus

Discussion in 'Research News' started by Jack Straw, Jul 17, 2019.

    1. Michael01
      Frustrated

      Michael01 Member

      Location:
      Grafton,NSW,Australia.
      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Just a question here, but I keep hearing about the big companies that are developing possible cures looking for clinical trial candidates.

      Any possible way to look into getting into one of these clinical trials, or is it just random choice?
       
    2. Sevv

      Sevv Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      12.04.2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert
      It certainly works in a part of tinnitus patients:

      https://thejns.org/view/journals/j-neurosurg/aop/article-10.3171-2019.4.JNS19347.xml

      You're right, but that lady in Netherlands got it by paying it herself. So it is "available".

      The above mentioned study is interesting: 2 patients had no (real) improvement, 2 had a TFI-improvement of 1/3, one had an improvement of 90% (essentially cured!).
       
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    3. Mentos

      Mentos Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cracow, Poland
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced, loud rock concert
      Yep, that's exactly what my understanding was.

      I plan to start tDCS stimulation in Poland in September, based on the exact protocol which Brai3n shared with me (free of charge, that was awesome from their side). The Polish tDCS guy has no experience with treating tinnitus, but recently started studying tinnitus and is probably even more excited to treat me than I am. Since tDCS impacts only the audio cortex, not the brainstem, I mentioned to him clinical trials with DBS and brainstem implants. He said to my surprise that there is a technology under development which can non-invasively penetrate brain structures and stimulate even the brainstem and DCN without surgery (transcranial) which in his view will be more promising in terms stimulating deep parts of the brain.

      Next time I meet him on September 21st to start tDCS I will ask for more details.
       
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    4. Christiaan
      Vegged out

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      The Hague, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Bloody headphones in 2016,worsened in 2020
      That sounds really cool. Never heard of tDCS technology that goes that far. It does remind me of the thinking cap that Dr. Wells wore in the TV series ''The Flash''. Hopefully it also boosts our thinking power while we're at it ;)

      The-Flash-Season-4-Harry-Thinking-Cap-Bus-Metas-Janet-Petty-Edwin-Gauss.jpg

      Hope tDCS works out for you. Please keep us informed!
       
    5. Selah1281

      Selah1281 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Bustown, OH10
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Search online for a specific country and clinical trials. You appear to be in Australia so here’s the link for you:

      https://www.australianclinicaltrials.gov.au/

      Search for tinnitus etc. If you find something local review the study info. Projected dates for start and completion etc.

      If you find one that is currently taking participants then you’d have to contact them to work out the logistics of proximity to you, scheduling. They may have specific restrictions so you’ll probably have to tell them types of meds you are taking etc that may exclude you.
       
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    6. Michael01
      Frustrated

      Michael01 Member

      Location:
      Grafton,NSW,Australia.
      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Thanks for that link. Unfortunately most of them seem to be in Melbourne which is under tight lockdown due to COVID-19 so I doubt I'd get in even if I was eligible, which I'm not, as one of them is a "First in human safety study of FX-322".
       
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    7. Mentos

      Mentos Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cracow, Poland
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced, loud rock concert
      • Informative Informative x 1
    8. Christiaan
      Vegged out

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      The Hague, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Bloody headphones in 2016,worsened in 2020
      Thank you so much @Mentos. I'll read it and ask a clinical physician-audiologist of University Maastricht if he could look into it for future treatment. Hopefully he's convinced of this game changer.
       
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    9. Joeseph Stope
      Innocent

      Joeseph Stope Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise? infection? negative stress? other?
      Well I for one am delighted that Elon Musk has appeared on the scene.

      In my view, one of the reason that progress is so slow in the audiology field is that the doctors can (hardly ever) not see what going on. Perhaps this radio microchip implant will be able to throw some light on (pardon the pun) what's going on in your head.

      And he's not the only one. There's this lady in the Harvard Audiology department, Stankovic (is this correct?) and she's trying to trailblaze a way of imaging the inside of the cochlea with…. umm... alpha particles or something weird like that.
      Once she gets this right then the trial and error experimentation will be much easier and faster.
       
    10. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Tell me more about the "alpha particle" imaging...
       
    11. Gb3

      Gb3 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sshl
      Are you referring to the lady from MIT, the Open Water company?
       
    12. Selah1281

      Selah1281 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Bustown, OH10
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      • Like Like x 1
    13. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
    14. Joeseph Stope
      Innocent

      Joeseph Stope Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise? infection? negative stress? other?
      Late getting back to you, FGG. It's a badge of pride among some circles to display their ignorance of maths and physics. No it couldn't be alpha particles... that was simply poetic licence on my part. It must be some kind of sub-atomic particle that Ms Stankovic is using (I got her name right!). Alpha particles were in use back in the 1920s and thirties with Ernest Rutherford and such-like. Unfortunately I am kind of lost by the technical brilliance of the scientifically-minded in this community. I freely admit that you have to be pretty brilliant in this field in order to keep up.

      But if her magic imaging machine, when it does come out, was able to tell that a patient is suffering from hair-cell loss, or synapse loss... or some other damage like the spiral ganglion etc., that would be a great help for us all to know whether it would be the Hough Ear Institute route or the Frequency Therapeutics route or the Pipeline Therapeutics route which would be best suited for the individual concerned
       
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    15. d'Wooluf

      d'Wooluf Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      You were probably thinking of photons. The technique is two photon microscopy.
       
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    16. frpp

      frpp Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Tmj, Nihl, ototoxic drugs, nerve/ vascular issues
      Personally I dream of the day when we are able to simply replace replace our ears with more effective mechanical ones. No more fear of tinnitus, hearing loss, or any balance issues, just simply swap out what is busted like 1, 2, 3.
       
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    17. Brians81
      Gloomy

      Brians81 Member

      Location:
      Indiana
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 23 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induce trauma
      That day may or may not come. For now we're still stuck with tinnitus. One day some form of medical miracle will come to save our ears.
       
    18. frpp

      frpp Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Tmj, Nihl, ototoxic drugs, nerve/ vascular issues
      @Brians81 I hope it does. Without a single doubt I'd trade in these ears in a microsecond.
       
    19. Joeseph Stope
      Innocent

      Joeseph Stope Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise? infection? negative stress? other?
      In the meantime I have set my ambitions somewhat lower. If they come out with some pill or procedure that would just turn down the volume a bit, that would make me happy. Something to help with loudness hyperacusis would be nice too. I might even get back into the workforce... if it wasn't for this damn COVID-19 and tinnitus… it amounts to a double whammy.
       
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    20. B18c1vtech

      B18c1vtech Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Head Trauma?
      I believe Neuralink is our greatest hope for a cure.

      Elon states that Neurolink, in principle, can fix anything that is wrong with the brain. This makes sense, as the brain (at a high level) works by sending electrical signals. The implant has already proven successful at reading precise limb movements from the brain, which seems damn impressive.

      Think about it, Neuralink is able to read/write data to/from the brain. If anything is going to help us fully understand tinnitus, it's Neuralink. Elon has proven to get things done (commercialized space travel, invented re-usable rockets, saved the market for electrical cars, etc..) I'm personally very excited to see what happens with human trials hopefully later this year.
       
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    21. weab00
      Alone

      weab00 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      depression-ville
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      music, concerts, whiplash; 08/20 H worsening
      Neuralink definitely has potential, but we're way closer to regenerative breakthroughs than Elon's device is to becoming commercial, maybe in 15-20 years. Meanwhile things like FX-322 and OTO-413 will be on the market within 5 years. However, I do have essential tremor which is degenerative so I have great hopes for Neuralink nonetheless.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    22. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      It could be Neurolink is our best hope for a cure, however I would approach this idea with extreme caution considering the information that we have about it now.

      Why I think you should be cautious:

      - There is only theoretical evidence about how Neuralink might work and how it would benefit people. There is no evidence that Neuralink would actually assist tinnitus or that it would be a good product.

      - There is evidence which counteracts the claim that tinnitus is not a brain related issue but is rather an ear related issue. Therefore the question is whether this device will actually also end up being effective when it is in no way actually targeting the underlying cause.

      - Elon Musk might have had success with work in many industries, however he has also had multiple underwhelming ideas and/or products. Probably the most relevant example would be the Thailand capsule cave rescue product. Therefore something made or invented by Musk doesn't automatically equate with success.

      Until there is further evidence that Neuralink actually appropriately provides benefit to people, there is little evidence and/or reason to believe that it will be the best option overall. Obviously we are still waiting for further evidence on other potential treatments like regenerative medicine, however these medicines have demonstrated anecdotally that they have the ability to treat tinnitus to a greater extend than Neuralink has thus far.
       
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    23. Christiaan
      Vegged out

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      The Hague, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Bloody headphones in 2016,worsened in 2020
      Maybe I get this all wrong, but we might not even need our cochleas anymore for receiving audiological input, if we look at what Elon Musk said in an interview. It sounds totally Sci-Fi and must be taken with a pinch of salt, like @tommyd87 said, but it's at least a positive endeavour:

      ''Musk recently shared that besides restoring hearingloss, the Neuralink device will “also extend range of hearing beyond normal frequencies and amplitudes,” he wrote. ... It would interface anywhere in the brain and it could restore your eyesight and limb functionalities,” Musk explained during a podcast earlier this year.''

      Link: https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/neuralink-hearing
       
    24. Michael01
      Frustrated

      Michael01 Member

      Location:
      Grafton,NSW,Australia.
      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I don't know about that. The brain is a highly complex thing, and I'd be very reluctant to have someone inserting chips into my brain, no matter what they do, as it could lead to complications later on down the road.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    25. Christiaan
      Vegged out

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      The Hague, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Bloody headphones in 2016,worsened in 2020
      Neuralink is generally considered safe in comparison to DBS and VNS devices, as it can be robotically placed with high precision in the brain (= avoids issue of damaging blood vessels + nerves) & has the size of a Fitbit. It already has been tested on three pigs; one of whom had it placed in the brain and later removed without any physical or mental issues.

      One of the few issues with this thing is that there is the possibility of getting hacked. But some of us are more than willing to take the risk of becoming a deadly sleeper agent for Russia if that means we're free from this menace. I know I will;)
       
      • Like Like x 1
    26. Sironketchup

      Sironketchup Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      SSHL / Stress
      If it took my tinnitus and gave me super powers I wouldn't think twice lol :)
       
      • Like Like x 3
    27. Emgee

      Emgee Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      United States
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Modern Society = Too Loud
      How hard do you think it will be to get into the upcoming human trials?
       
    28. Christiaan
      Vegged out

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      The Hague, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Bloody headphones in 2016,worsened in 2020
      It's hard to say. @Emgee . Musk has only mentioned in an interview that the device has received FDA's breakthrough designation and will first be tested in 2020 on patients with a medical disease, such as Parkinson’s, epilepsy, paraplegia and tetraplegia. But if Parkinson's is one of these targets, I could not see why tinnitus would be a bridge too far, as we have seen in the DBS trials of Parkinson's patients and the positive effects on their tinnitus. So it stands to reason that tinnitus can be targeted by the Neuralink device, just likely other neurological disorder. Hopefully we will know more later this year about their objectives.
       
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    29. Emgee

      Emgee Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      United States
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Modern Society = Too Loud
      I initially thought that many people would be hesitant to enter the human trials as a willing participant. It makes sense to take a “you go first and I’ll watch” approach. However, when you consider that many are dealing with terrible conditions right now, it’s understandable that some would choose to go through with it. I would even consider it at this point.

      The breakthrough device designation by the FDA is huge. I guess we shall see what happens in time. Neuralink is extremely exciting.
       
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    30. frpp

      frpp Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Tmj, Nihl, ototoxic drugs, nerve/ vascular issues
      I'd rip both of mine out myself and crush them with my own hands to get the surgery.
      To have my hearing and balance restored and be free of this 10 year hell would be the the single greatest day of my life.
       
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