Hidden Hearing Loss, Tinnitus and Trouble Hearing Conversations in Noise

Discussion in 'Research News' started by HomeoHebbian, Sep 28, 2016.

    1. lapidus

      lapidus Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
    2. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      In this article a figure of 54.7 percent was mentioned. Amazing.
      Quote: "Sanchez said they found the prevalence of tinnitus was higher in teens than in the general population: 54.7 percent (identified through a questionnaire)"
      End quote.
      I did a search on the internet Epidemic and hearing loss. These two seem to go well together. Plenty articles.
      Perhaps one good thing coming from this is that it is more difficult to ignore.
      It is costing money! Money is what makes our world go round.
       
    3. Mentos

      Mentos Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cracow, Poland
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced, loud rock concert
      I think (hope) this 54.7% stands for kids with T incidents and not the chronic teenage T sufferers. If that was for chronic then it's a disaster.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    4. cornelius

      cornelius Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2002
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      several acoustic traumas, always physician denial
      Suffering from mild hearing loss and tinnitus after prolonged noises exposures in the past, I seem since a few months ago to have actually decrease of the tinnitus and the mild hyperacusis (along with loss of hearing dynamics a sparkle) after a possible new ear trauma because it coincides with a rifle shooting practice from an indoor launch pad with large caliber (very loud and short noises which makes lots of vibrations) though I had very higher range ear protections. But if I could step back in time I would keep higher tinnitus and better hearing because now I feel no more tiny noise exposure risk can be taken. If only all those knowledges or even hypothesis about inner ear neural zones fragility had been spread the last decades. Even today Ents and general practitioners are relunctant to open their minds to this reality slowly beeing recognized.
       
    5. Alex Senkowski
      Inactive

      Alex Senkowski Member

      Location:
      Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Otosclerosis
      Two questions:

      1) What is the difference between hidden hearing loss and sensorineural hearing loss?
      2) Is hidden hearing loss strictly noise-induced?
       
    6. Alue
      No Mood

      Alue Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      Hidden hearing loss is just what is not detected on a standard audiogram. Hidden hearing loss is sensorineural hearing loss.

      Is it strictly noise-induced? Probably not.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    7. shasta0863

      shasta0863 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2007
      I think I'm genetically screwed when it comes to earth health and tolerance. I know at 13 I wen't to these little teen clubs and music was loud. Had ringing numerous times that wen't away. After that phase not much noise issue until 18 where I wen't to electronic festival and got a temp. threshold shift and noticeable T. Bad ears, damage from 13 contributed, who knows.

      I got a hearing test and was fine. Perfect actually. So, mine clearly is above testable ranges. Problem for me, is mine is getting worse. After 18 getting my first perm. T, I was fine until age 26 where a loud car gave my hyperacusis and a wood saw outside my window woke me up, I got hit for solid 10 seconds. 5 days later I wen't to bed notice T super loud, never was same. Last year or so, T changing, bad hyperacusis and very little progress as motorycles, jets and other noises screw over me ears. I was semi-stable for awhile recently then i got hit by 114db for a whopping 1 second. Worse T almost 2 weeks in...how do you even explain that from a brief exposure?

      All with perfect 6 year old hearing. So, I must be extremely damaged in non-testing ranges. If a brief 114 in my ear can change my T and world...how can I continue forward. This noise was from knocking something over, my own home...safe supposedly.

      I'm screwed and I think the hidden hearing loss I got at young age screwed me over with my ears able to handle noise and repair as an adult. I admire everyone with T that just stays consistent and even little exposures don't change it.
       
    8. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      HomeoHebbian
      Question it

      HomeoHebbian Member Benefactor

      Location:
      United States
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise exposure
      Hidden hearing loss generally refers to a hearing deficit that goes undetected (i.e. "hides") behind an otherwise normal report from the audiologist. Increasingly, it is being used to refer to a difficulty tracking conversations and other complex sounds in high levels of background noise or in rooms with a lot of reverb.

      Sensorineural hearing loss describes a possible biologic origin of the hearing loss. Some hearing loss is metabolic (in which the ear's "battery" is not functioning properly), some is conductive (in which sound is not transmitted normally through the outer ear and middle ear) and some is sensorineural (which refers to a dysfunction of sensory hair cells in the cochlea or to the neurons that convert these signals into electrical activity that creates the perception of sound).

      As for your second question, no, hidden hearing loss need not be strictly noise-induced. It could be a consequence of normal aging, ototoxic drugs etc. The basic idea is that if you damage the neural connections without damaging the sensory hair cells, problems will pop up in listening conditions that are not tested in a routine visit to the audiologist. With that said, noise exposure is probably the most direct route to hidden hearing loss (and tinnitus).
       
    9. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      HomeoHebbian
      Question it

      HomeoHebbian Member Benefactor

      Location:
      United States
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise exposure
      The MOCs may resume their earlier position on the inner hair cell but from everything we have seen, there is no functional synapse. In other words, the chemical factor that was keeping them away from the inner hair cell is gone but that doesn't mean the MOCs have the means to talk to the inner hair cell. Also, keep in mind that the net effect of MOC activation is to dampen electrical currents in hair cells (at least in outer hair cells).
       
      • Informative Informative x 1
    10. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      Sometimes I feel medical science is still so far away from understanding the workings of the inner ear :(
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    11. Mithrandir
      Ape-like

      Mithrandir Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Shock Disorder (TTTS)
      @Reinier Maybe you don't have a problem of inner ear but a problem of middle ear ;)
       
    12. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      A conductance test has been performed.
      It is definitely the inner ear. Also makes sense after the loud explosion my ears where exposed.
      Boy oh boy...it was loud!!
       
    13. Mithrandir
      Ape-like

      Mithrandir Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Shock Disorder (TTTS)
    14. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      Yes. The typical noise induced type. Notch at the important frequencies for understanding speech.
       
    15. Mithrandir
      Ape-like

      Mithrandir Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Shock Disorder (TTTS)
      I have no non hidden hearing-loss, audiograms are perfect, & I'm quasi sure I have TTTS
       
      • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    16. Artemis2K
      Kick ass

      Artemis2K Member Benefactor

      Location:
      South Carolina
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
      I honestly think it will be within 5 years before there is treatment available, including for those with slight hearing loss. Hearing loss has been cured in mice in multiple different ways, it's just a matter of repairing damage in the right order and finding a way to not cause any further damage. The latter, I think, will be the easiest because it would involve microscopic technology, and 5 years is enough for required innovation.
       
    17. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      Stem cells have the information to repair in the right order. That is why I think there could be something interesting happening there. I know this is a very simple way of looking at it. But still?
      When slight hearing loss is able to improve, the principle could be the same for more severe hearing loss and associated discomforts. (Discomforts is putting it mildly )-;).
      Sometimes I agree and think after reading about the "breakthroughs" I see indications a treatment could be not too far away.
      But sometimes I read what is not yet known about, what sounds like basic processes in the inner ear, I loose this confidence.
      That's just it. Hidden hearing loss does not show on an audiogram. )-:
       
    18. Vinnitus
      Tired

      Vinnitus Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Amsterdam
      Tinnitus Since:
      28/04/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      Hello @Reinier

      Out of curiosity; do you have the classical "noise-notch" at 4Khz or at another frequency? Also, did you experience aural fullness directly after the incident and do you still experience it? If so, has the fullness been intermittent or continuous in nature?
       
    19. Vinnitus
      Tired

      Vinnitus Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Amsterdam
      Tinnitus Since:
      28/04/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      Thank you for this information. I suppose you mean the MOC-efferent moves into place on the former position of the type-1 afferent in this case? If the MOC-efferents are not able to talk to the IHC, it would invalidate my earlier theory regarding reconnecting MOC-efferents. Maybe the loss of type-1 afferents is enough though...

      I have been reading into discordant dysfunction theory for Tinnitus, which proposes imbalance of signalling coming from the IHCs and the OHCs for a certain frequency resulting in the perception of Tinnitus in the dorsal cochlear nucleus (DCN). Is this theory (still) considered viable? If so, could the loss of type-1 afferent connections to the IHC in hidden hearing loss perhaps cause this same imbalance in de DCN and as such be a possible etiology for Tinnitus?
       
    20. ruben ruiz

      ruben ruiz Member

      Location:
      Tucson, AZ
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      I believe it was meds and stress
      75, 000.000 acute and chronic sufferers this is a major catastrophe in the making. The GOV and the FDA dont have clue.
       
    21. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      Hello @Vinnitus .
      Yes a school example of NIHL. 4Khz. Also "wear and tear". So above 8 kHz sloping down. The latter is age related, but still the same principle. Loss of haircells/synapses.
      After the incident I did have fullness in the (mostly) right ear. This ear is most effected.
      I do still have this feeling. Although it is abating very slowly.
      The feeling of fullness was continuous and is slowly starting to get intermittent. That's is an improvement I notice.
      I often have the feeling of tinnitus in my ears and do not hear a loud tinnitus. As if my tinnitus frequency is too high to detect. I firmly believe that is what is happening.
       
    22. lapidus

      lapidus Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
    23. Vinnitus
      Tired

      Vinnitus Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Amsterdam
      Tinnitus Since:
      28/04/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      Interesting. After what time period did your aural fullness start to become intermittent? weeks, months? Also, do you experience a Tinnitus tone you would classify as 4kHz? Or do you only have higher tones (>8kHz)? I also experience a weird sensation in the ear indicating the presence of Tinnitus or the abnormality causing it, even if the Tinnitus is indeed very low.
       
    24. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      More like a year.
      9.5 kHz. Occasionally (seldom) 4-5 kHz.
      I realize tinnitus actually means there has to be sound. But there is so much more to damaged inner ears.
      Sometimes I get the feeling that a very sharp scalpel is cutting through my brains.
      I hate this condition:mad:
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    25. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      journals.lww.com/thehearingjournal/Fulltext/2016/11000/Hidden_Hearing_Loss___A_Clinician_s_Perspective.2.aspx

      Again: this suggests it needs administration close after noise exposure:
      "successful promotion of auditory neuronal survival via neurotrophin delivery, gene therapy, and electric stimulation, among others, has been thoroughly demonstrated in animal models."

      But I am glad with the research they are doing. Who knows what they will learn from this approach.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    26. serendipity1996

      serendipity1996 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown but suspect noise-induced
      This is a very base speculation, but I wonder whether they will be able to repair damaged auditory nerve fibres before hair cell regeneration. I am still waiting on an ENT appointment but I am pretty sure I suffer from this "hidden hearing loss" - have had tinnitus for the past five years although I noticed no other problems with my hearing, in fact my hearing still felt pretty pristine, however, recently it's been awful. My audiogram from last week came up as perfect but in the past six months or so I have had hyperacusis, irritated ears, distortion, and most disconcertingly the persistent sense of derealisation. Everything sounds dulled and 'far away'. I'm only 20 years old too so feel like the best part of my life is over.
       
    27. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      Yes. So do I.

      Also I would not be surprised that slowly science is starting to find that our ears are much, much more prone to damage (hidden hearing loss) than previous assumed. An effect of this realization is that maximum safe sound levels will go down.
      Our ears are not robust at all. Not so surprising if you look at the delicate structure of the inner ear.

      It is amazing that you experience distortion, tinnitus and hyperacusis with a perfect audiogram.
      What does this tell you about the value of an audiogram?

      I think if you are this young, it is not unrealistic to hope for future cures.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    28. serendipity1996

      serendipity1996 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown but suspect noise-induced
      Yeah, ears are so delicate. And not many people realise that. Even a family friend with 30 years experience as a teacher of deaf kids dismissed me when I said I definitely had damage telling me 'your hearing is perfect as you know from your audiogram - it's just your anxiety'.
       
    29. Reinier
      Not amused

      Reinier Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explosion starting engine
      Don't under estimate anxiety.
      I personally experience(d) that anxiety can do a lot of "damage". Hopefully reversible.
       
    30. serendipity1996

      serendipity1996 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown but suspect noise-induced
      Really? That's reassuring. How did anxiety affect your hearing?
       

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