Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Long-Lasting Everyday Home-Practiced Experiences

Ml

Thanks for responding... I will be starting at home treatment tomorrow, this thread inspired me. I'm not expecting a miracle, I just want a reduction in H and spikes.

 

That's a fair expectation
One reason why LT sort of failed for T is that people waited too long before starting it, used under powered light sources while having high expectations in line with the high prices charged by clinics in the past - and since it's a 3-4 years project you really want to do it at home anyways plus you need a device ready in case of future damage - and also some prednisone just in case as well

Fortunately with the availability of super high powered LED at low prices cost is not an issue anymore

 

I'm doing a lot better. My ears are hissing more than usual today but I also have the flu.

That said, I'd have considered this a "great day" a year ago

 

An update.


Sorry for this late update, I gave my ears a rest from laser.

After I stopped the laser sessions, my tinnitus kept being very annoying with some occasional bad spikes. The nights were not very good and I awaked often to the noise. I started lasering again 10 days ago. I started with a 15 minutes session once a day. Along the first few days, my tinnitus changed to a less aggressive noises and it got diminished gradually; as a consequence, my sleep was improved too.
On the day 5th, the ringing raised, but noises were still bearable.
On the day 6th, I stopped, noise went to high.
On the day 7th, I started again with a 10 minutes session once daily.
Since I changed to a 10 minutes session (3 days back), my tinnitus keeps changing all along the day, it can go from very low up to a medium level, but always with a less aggressive tones than usual. The nights are fine, but noise can awake me occasionally due to the ups and downs.
For example, while writing this update, my tinnitus has gone from 6 to 2, and back, in a scale of 10. Overall, the ringing is much better now than the normal base line which was a 9 in the same scale and far more ennoying. I’ll stick to the 10 minutes sessions and see what happens. I’ll keep you updated.

Best regards.

 

AZ, according to my own experience, I would recommend you to start with a daily 10 minutes session and, if things don’t get rough, after 10 days build up to a longer time exposure, otherwise stop for a day or two and re-start till you achieve the optimal dose for your condition. A rise and minor spikes of the ringing are normal at the beginning though, but bad spikes mean you have to stop for a while till tinnitus is back to the base line, then start again with a lower dose.

Good luck!

 

Tom, I'm glad you are feeling better, I wish you continue improving.
I'm sorry about your flu, here we have a real flu epidemic, I’m on the verge so I cross my fingers.
Get better

 

Thank you for the advice... I'll try 10 minutes daily for a few weeks and increase from there if everything goes well.

 

That's good to hear Tom... Thanks for the update, hope you feel better my friend.

 

I also agree with 10 minute sessions. For me, it was the 30 min sessions that caused the ear pain. I'm seeing some improvements as well. Whether they are directly related to laser, I can not say for sure. The last time I saw some improvements with H, was several months ago with very short 5-10 minute sessions before bed. But then the low tone fleeting T scared me so I stopped for a while and only used it inconsistently. During that time, I saw no improvements. I noticed improvements this time after daily sessions of 5-10 min for 2 weeks, stopped, had the fleeting T for a few days and did not use the laser for about a week. After the pause for one week, I noticed the T was less aggressive. I will start up again today for a few days then stop when I get the fleeting, wait a few days then resume.

 

Thank you, gentlemen.

It's been a stressful week.
Tom c NYC became Tom C New Jersey. Moving sucks. Moving when you and your wife have the flu is hell.

Overall my ears are so much better. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have tinnitus. But 90% of the time I do NOT have intrusive tinnitus. I mostly hear a seashell sound in quiet rooms. Bathroom. Bedtime.

My bad days? I hear a vacuum in the next room type of sound. Usually when I'm sick or VERY hungover. It doesn't scare me though. I know it will pass. A hangover is a great comparison for the mental toll: Sucks - but it'll go.

This isn't habituation. It's legit healing. I still use my light. I'm skeptical if it does anything to the cochlea, but a friend at work swears light therapy helps her knee - so maybe it's just helping local muscle inflammation?

In the end I don't care why I feel better. But I still do the light 2-3x a week.

Lastly - the best thing I had done was cranial chiropractic work. I went to a tmj and postural expert that treats broadway pit musicians frequently with tinnitus. It's not cranial sacral therapy. That's bullshit. This therapy was quite painful and was mostly intra-oral.

He told me he rarely "cures" but most feel "much better". If anyone is in the NE USA, PM me. I'll share contact info.

 

Hi, Cal. I agree with you, that’s the way to go. I do believe that short pauses are necessary to give ears a rest because too much energy can trigger spikes, which I assume means “give us a break”, so it’s a wise idea to take it easy. Fleeting noises are scary ended, and, although temporary, laser trigger quite a few, but this is part of the process. Let’s hope that we finally succeed.

 

Status report LLLT
Name: Jan64
Device (brand, wavelength and power): Konftec, 650 nm, 50 mW (changed from 808 to 650, 808 nm cable was broken)
Lasering since: started again after agravation on 15 August 2017
Protocol (every day? Duration): (almost) every day in bed before and during sleep, 45 minutes
Effects: T loudness slightly down. Better hearing on 6kHz and 8 kHz. Can also be caused by the HBOT and prednisone/pentoxifillin cures I underwent.

 

@Jan64

Hey Jan, I have a question for you regarding the Konftec since you seem to be quite knowledgeable and familiar with the unit. Is it normal for the 808nm to get rather warm during operation? It isn't painful, but the warmth is a little concerning, I would just like to make sure that this is how it should be functioning.

Thanks,
Ross

 

Hi Ross, My 808 gets also warmer. I think it can be 50 -60 degrees Celcius. In the beginning I was also concerned but it is not a problem. Regards,
Jan

 

Thanks for the response Jan, just wanted to make sure I wasn't frying my cochleas.

 

@Bobby B @Jan64

How do guys feel about Dr. Wilden using 4000 joules per session? I'm currently using around 300 per session, should I be aiming higher?

 

I have no idea about the optimal dose... Common sense says it should not be too low or too high. But the light has to reach the cochlea, that is for sure... I use a 50 mW, 650nm, 45 minutus a day, that is o.05 * 45/60 * 3600 = 135 J...

 

I went to the Sarasota Clinic for 15 treatments without improvements. They told me to get another 5-10 sessions by 3 months.
What should I do now? What unit should be better to get? I need some advices.
In the clinc the suggest me to buy from them the Luci Basic.

 

What power did they use? What was the duration?

Your tinnitus is quite old (since 2006), laser works best in the acute phase... When you read all the posts, read scientific papers etc. you may conclude that the chance you will experience healing within 15 treatments is low (not a very scientific statement...).

When something happened in the first 15 treatments you might consider going on... But when nothing happened during this treatments chance of having some benefit after another 5-10 treatments is low...

When you would like to give it another try you might consider long term home treatment... a more cost-efficient option... Also have look at the Konfec.com devices, a cheaper option.
Kind regards,
Jan

 

Jan64
Much Thanks for replying.

You seem pretty knowledgeable regarding the topic. I know its old, on one Ear wasn't too loud but last year by December I was exposed to Loud Music again, and the other ear got a spike or a new high pitch. In the clinic they said I had a minor damage to the cochlea on both ears. The luci machine from Kaiser could be good for me?
What would you do in my case? Should I try it again? And get the Luci machine? Or should I just wait to see if anything else comes as a cure, which no ones know by when would be available....

 

Hi, noitseuq,
I’m sorry that the treatment didn’t work for you.
I had about 60 sessions from Dr. Wilden in Bad Fussing, along several years, and did nothing for me. In my opinion, more sessions will be useless for you. If I were you, I would buy an infrared Konftec for home use instead of an expensive device like Luci, the difference, if any, is minimal, what really matters is the power and the radiation. Don’t pay any attention if they tell you (like Wilden told to me) that Konftec devices are bullshit, because they are not. They only try to sell you their device, it’s good business for them, have this in mind. Konftec will perfectly do the same job as those expensive devices or even better. I’ve one myself and I’m quite happy with it. A cure can take ages, your whole life maybe. Too long to seat down and wait for it. It is optimistically promoted for a near future, I know, but the reality is other, because, unfortunately, science is poking around in fog due the founding for Tinnitus research is scandalously poor. No money, no research, it's not difficult to understand. Is it? So siren songs is all we are getting and will get in the future if things don't change. Helping yourself is more realistic than awaiting for what only exist in our expectations. IMO, a laser home device is a good option, it might not work, who knows, but it won’t harm either. Good luck in your choice .

 

Well said!

 

I'm very new to this forum but have been following for months and would welcome any advice on the PowerLaser Basic500 that I'm considering to buy. Thanks

 

@Joel St-Amand

Is this the model you are considering?

https://www.powermediclasers.com/power-laser/power-laser-basic-500

The description says that it is a laser designed to treat trigger points, so it most likely has a very narrow beam, like the light version of a metal trigger point dry needle. For use on the inner ear, you want a wide beam. There are only a small number of lasers designed for inner ear use, most of them are shown in this chart (Konftec, Lux Spa / Wilden, Lumomed / Luci, and TinniTool):

http://www.konftec.com/html/EN/Auricular_Laser_Comparison.htm

The one inner ear laser that is notably missing from the chart is the COMBILASER LK-COMBI laser, often referred to as the "Lucky Laser."

http://www.lucky-laser.com/productview.php?id=LK-COMBI

Some people on Tinnitus Talk have been trying LED light therapy in place of LASER light therapy. The LED devices are less expensive, safer for the eyes, and arguably equally effective. One option for an LED device is the Red Light Man Infrared Mini 830.

https://redlightman.com/product/infrared-mini-830/

 

@ lymebite. Yes, that's the one. Thanks for the reply. Do know how any mW are needed to be effective?

 

@ lymebite. Yes, that's the one. Thanks for the reply. Do know how any mW are needed to be effective? So a 3 diode would solve the narrow beam problem, right?

 

Hello, I’m had tinnitus just recently and I’m scared about what might happen to my quality of live. It’s being some extremely rough days/worse nights. I know many of you had endure this for years or decades, please be kind with my situation that is different.

Went to a rock festival (March 3rd 2018) and stay on the front row during 8-9 hours. The next day the ringing on my left ear was gone, but on the right one continued.

I went to a ENT who prescribe: Devincal (Piracetam and Vincamina), Prednisolone, Aceclofenaco, and Metacarbamol). It didn’t improve it. Also the audiometric test went fine, without hearing loss.

Also I went to a TMD specialist who use LLLT and it actually remove the ringing. It was temporary, just around 24 hours. But it gave me a light of hope. This was last Friday (March 9th 2018), the laser was applied for 20 minutes. This weekend was not great, I’m having such a difficult time trying to sleep, that is affecting my life. I will continue therapy tomorrow (March 12th 2018). I will continue updating the results.

 

@Joel St-Amand

The dose for a laser is measured in joules, which is a function of time and power density (mW per square centimeter). So a laser of any power can be effective, depending on how much time you use the laser.

Lasers are complicated in terms of safety, effective dosage, and effective wavelength. If it were me, I would only consider using a laser specifically designed and marketed for inner ear use. If you want to try a different laser designed for other medical purposes, you probably would want to learn a lot about safety and dosage. There are a number of posts on TTalk discussing dosage, here is one that I wrote a while back:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/diy-low-level-laser-therapy-for-tinnitus-on-a-budget-—-lllt-under-100.15342/page-25#post-236643

This webpage also offers a good overview of laser dosages, protocols, treatment times, etc.

http://www.coldlasers.org/

Good luck!

 

His home device as of today is still 50 mW..

 

Hi Lisa, you are right, checked it at:
https://www.lux-spa-ibiza.com/index.php/en/order

It is in German, but it states Laser Leistung (laser power): 50 mW. See below:

Bestellung Lux Spa Homelaser*
1 x Lux Spa Home Laser by Dr. Wilden / Inner Ear Laser € 2.250,-

Datenblatt
Endpreis inklusive Steuer und Versand / Garantie: 2 Jahre

Lieferumfang:
1 Lithium Ion Batterie als Steuereinheit mit 2 USB Anschlüsse für Laser und ein mini USB für Ladevorgang
2 Laserdioden 650nm mit USB Stecker
2 Silikonstöpsel als Ohrteile
1 Netzteil 5V 1A mit USB Anschluss
1 Kabel mini USB/USB für Ladevorgang
1 USB Stick mit Gebrauchsanleitung und weiterer Information
1 Verpackung

Technische Daten des LuzSpa Home Laser Plus von Dr.Wilden
Betriebsspannung: 5 Volt Lithium Ion Batterie mit 10.000 mAh
Wellenlänge: 650-660nm
Laserleistung: 50mW ,diffus divergenter Dauerstrahl mit aprox 60º Austrittswinkel
Laserschutzklasse: 1M
Ladezeit: < 10 Stunden
Betriebsdauer mit einer Ladung: > 20Stunden


Bestellformular für den Lux Spa Homelaser by Dr. Wilden




Bitte füllen Sie das Bestellformular vollständig aus. Achten Sie auf die korrekte Eingabe des Sicherheits-Codes am Ende der Seite. Die Bestellung wird am Ende des Formulares mit dem Bestell-Button abgeschlossen. Eingaben, welche Pflichtfelder sind erkennen Sie an dem "roten Stern". Sie erhalten eine Bestätigung per E-Mail, damit Sie wissen dass Ihre Bestellung bei uns eingegangen ist. Ihre Daten werden verschlüsselt übermittelt und werden von uns ausschließlich in Verbindung mit Ihrer Bestellung gespeichert. Wir sind bemüht Ihren Auftrag zeitnah zu bearbeiten und auszuführen. Mit der Bestellung erhalten Sie eine Rechnung und die Zahlungsdaten. Sollten Sie Fragen haben, schreiben Sie uns: office@lux-spa-ibiza.com

Regards, Jan