MDMA (a Component of Ecstacy) Potential for the Treatment of Tinnitus

Discussion in 'Research News' started by tomytl, Mar 9, 2014.

    1. Killedbyashadow

      Killedbyashadow Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I have used MDMA in the past, I certainly noticed it helped with the tinnitus, in fact I remember my first roll like it was yesterday, I burst out crying in front of my friends, I could hear perfectly and the tinnitus faded into the background.

      This makes me think it much more of a problem with the brain than we thought. If I could I would self experiment with microdosing with MDMA and record it, however I'm not in a position to do that now.

      I have absolutely no answers for why I have tinnitus, no accidents or working or living with loud noises. I've had it since childhood.
       
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    2. jer

      jer Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma
      Maybe Tinnitus (and this is a wild hypothesis), is not a one stop shop so to say. Maybe tinnitus has different causes for different people. That can also mean that for some people it could be a problem with their ears, and for some people it could be a problem with their brain. And whatever they have, tinnitus just could be a symptom off that.

      The reason why i say this, and i have given this some though. Is because mostly i have it more in my left ear. So i hear my tinnitus mostly on the left side (in my ear). Could that mean that something in my ear is damaged, or could it be my brain? And if it is my brain that is damaged, should i not hear it bilaterally and not unilaterally in just my left ear?
       
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    3. jacob21
      Amazed

      jacob21 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008 > 2009 "cured" >2nd onset June 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Induce ( loud music )
      MAPS Submits Breakthrough Therapy Designation Application to FDA for Phase 3 Trials of MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy for PTSD

      The Zendo Project launches crowdfunding campaign to expand psychedelic peer support services at festivals

      Dear,

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      In the July 2017 edition of the MAPS Newsletter, you'll also learn:

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      The first half of 2017 was incredible for psychedelic research, and we are off to a great start for the rest of the year.

      With appreciation,

      Bryce Montgomery
      MAPS Associate Director of Communications and Marketing
       
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    4. TDJake

      TDJake Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      Feb 3, 2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      So I have a report on this claim:

      First, for the really desperate who don't want to read a lot to find an answer, which I can relate believe me to such times, yes it does work. However, before you go out looking for some to take please read this whole post.

      About a month ago, I tried MDMA and within an hour the "T" was gone. More precisely what happened in my case was that it became "blended" (best word I can think of) with my "experience" (again best I can describe) at the time, so I didn't have the feeling that I had to constantly "ignore" it. I'm sure those reading this with T can relate to what that means. The noise became flattened, and basically I felt like I didn't have it anymore, even if I thought about it, even when I thought to myself "is it still here?" It was gone, hearing restored to calm.

      Anyway, yes that happened however please do note careful reader, that the effect is only temporary. It was back again in a day. Also, when it did come back, and this is most important to note, it came back with a ferocity that I had never experienced before, so much so that I prayed it would return to the level it was before my experiment, which is not trivial but was still far more tolerable than what I was experiencing during that rebound period. Let me be clear, it was the worst it had ever been since starting over 3 years ago. I thought about suicide on multiple occasions it was that bad.

      So I think there's a rebound effect, where yes it gives temporary relief but when the drug is out of your system it (the T) comes back very harshly and very strongly.

      Thus, my bottom line post here (and I signed up to post this today, because I saw this thread a few months ago and it took that long to acquire the "goods" so to speak, and I promised to myself I would sign up to post my results when the experiment was done), my bottom line recommendation is that you not do this, not at all, dear fellow T sufferer. This is not the answer, no matter how desperate you are. You will regret it immensely; the temporary benefit is most certainly not worth it.

      Hope this helps someone avoid this mistake. Because for you, it might not return to the level it was before when it enters the rebound I mentioned above. And that would be very bad, trust me.
       
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    5. Luman
      Tired

      Luman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brooklyn
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Intermittent Tinnitus probably noise induced
      TDjake, thank you for your input on this subject, I think that anybody with tinnitus , who is considering taking this drug, owes you. It sounds like you are saying that your tinnitus has returned to the level it was before your experiment. If this is true, I'm glad for you and you're correct regarding the possibility that for some, it may not. If you are still suffering as a result of the experiment, I hope that you recover very soon.
       
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    6. Nick07
      Balanced

      Nick07 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      possibly noise or unknown
      @Luman I feel like you're giving one person's account of the drug too much credit. I wouldn't discount MDMA because some people have had bad experiences with it. The study indicated those who got relief had it last for a week or longer, and the dose was small. Another guy on here claimed he got silence for about 2 months I think after taking a higher dose. To me this sounds like the best thing that's somewhat readily available. The only real drawback is legality as I don't want to go to jail. I'm not saying not use caution, but to me that "spike" was due to coming down off the drug.

      Also I noticed you got tinnitus after having earwax removed, me too. I didn't get it immediately, but as soon I put my headphone to the ear that was clogged I heard the noise of a stream. I imagine my ear had clogged defensively and was healing, and if I had left it alone it would have finished healing without problems. If that was the case then would clogging it again let it heal.
       
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    7. Luman
      Tired

      Luman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brooklyn
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Intermittent Tinnitus probably noise induced
      Well, Nick07, I was just giving some credit to TDJake for his account of his experience, I didn't mean to insinuate that this would happen to everybody, or that nobody with T should take it, but it was nice of him to outline what he sees as a risk. For those with tinnitus, when taking this particular drug. Although I used some pretty strong psychedelic substances when I was younger, which I do not regret for the most part, I have no experience with MDMA, and I doubt that I ever will.

      I now think that the earwax removal, in my case, set off the T and H, but the deeper cause may be ETD. I do have fullness and other symptoms of this condition, ETD is definitely causing T for many people, and I intend to start, this week, to clear out my ear Eustachian tubes from gunk. This process won't happen overnight, it may take weeks or months, but I really think that it might help. I intend to use a facial steamer for the nasal passages (where the ends of the the Eustachian tubes are), a very safe "EarPopper" device that I will receive in the mail in a couple of days, and other techniques. Even if it doesn't cure the T completely, my ears will be better off without blockage of the Eustachian tubes.
       
    8. sickofants

      sickofants Member

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/14
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sertraline (Zoloft)
      I realise this is quite an old post but is written in an authoritative manner and knowing a bit about the subject, I know it's not all correct. I should say I totally agree with the harm reduction sentiment but some of what you have said isn't quite right. I also think there are some important additions that can be made.

      I have cribbed the parts that I disagree with and I'll explain why:

      MAOIs - agree 100%. I have no personal experience with these but they seem to require careful monitoring of what you ingest and I doubt that MDMA is a great idea. I would also say that prescriptions to MAOIs are not handed out lightly due to the risk / side effect profile. They tend to be a last resort which suggests a level of psychiatric discomfort where MDMA use might be distressing at a dose that is actually going to do anything.

      SSRIs - unlikely to cause Serotonin Syndrome at anything like a normal dose of both drugs. That's if you have been taking SSRIs for a period of time. If you're new to SSRIs, you shouldn't be going anywhere near a psychoactive substance unless your doctor approves - and even at that you should think twice.

      The biggest reason not to take MDMA while taking an SSRI, though, is you're not likely to get a lot out of the experience. MDMA does quite a lot but is actually an SSRI itself as well as a Serotonin releasing agent. Well, if you're already taking a medication with an SSRI action, you're already swimming in a pool of extracellular Serotonin and neuroadaptation has occured. This seems to induce a blocking action to MDMA's desired effects. Serotonin Syndrome is much more likely to occur when an individual who doesn't regularly take serotonergic agents proceeds to take too much or combines two serotonergic drugs which has a multiplicative (and unpredictable) effect.

      SSRI medication (Sertraline) actually caused my tinnitus about 3 years ago. It took me a long time but I believe I know the mechanism behind this and I'm going to start a new thread because I think there are people in the same boat. I'll say here that I think they are a horrible class of medication and leave it at that.

      Again, the biggest reason not to do this is the nullifying effect that benzos will have. There's not much point. If MDMA makes you anxious, consider that you might be dosing too high. If you are dosing sensibly and you still feel anxious, I'd leave it alone in future.

      BUT, this mix is not especially dangerous for somebody with a healthy heart. For somebody with heart problems, MDMA is a terrible idea on it's own anyway. If you overdose or have a bad reaction to MDMA and land in hospital, you'll be given a benzo 99% of the time. The danger with mixing uppers and downers is mostly dose related. Because of the nullifying effect, you might take more than you should of one or both. Then, when one drug wears off before the other, you find you are too stimulated or too sedated. It's pretty hard to overdose on benzos as the only downer even for a benzo naive individual so really the biggest risk is taking too much MDMA. Even at that, the acute risk isn't major since even the shorter acting benzos will affect the CNS for a longer duration. Nobody can be certain of the long term effects of dosing too high or too frequently and this surely varies from person to person. What we do know is that MDMA is neurotoxic and dosing too high and/or too frequently increases the damage. MDMA + benzo hardly compares to a speedball. Heroin is a much more powerful CNS depressant than benzos are and crack cocaine is a more potent stimulant so the effect I talked about earlier is much more of a pressing concern. Further, there is a much greater chance of cardiac trauma for even a healthy heart, because the components of a speedball each have a greater effect on heart rate pulling it in very different directions. The elevation of heart rate from MDMA is comparable to a brisk 10 minute walk (YMMV, but you get the idea) so this is only an issue with MDMA + benzo if you think that moderate exercise + benzo is dangerous.

      On the face of it, the advice above seems harmless even though incorrect. However, it might lead to somebody who is dependent on benzos holding off to try MDMA. That would be more dangerous than taking your normal dose. MDMA lowers the seizure threshold and so does benzo withdrawal. Seizures can be fatal. I am dependent on benzos (not ideal, but it is what it is) but I enjoy MDMA 3-4 times a year and have done it twice since being benzo dependent. The experience is certainly dulled but far from worthless. I take diazepam, which is a long acting benzo. If I know I am going to take MDMA, I will take diazepam about 24 hours before. No danger of withdrawals but not dampening the experience too much.

      Mythbusting here... downer + downer is the most dangerous combination, generally speaking. Prince and Michael Jackson are two celebrity examples that immediately spring to mind. They depress the CNS through different modes of action and even experienced users get caught out. Upper + upper is pretty bad too for similar reasons. Regular amphetamine + MDMA (an amphetamine itself) is known to be particularly neurotoxic too.
      To add to this, the neurotoxic effects of MDMA can be mitigated with antioxidants. Vitamin C is a fantastic antioxidant which can be taken before and after use. I prefer supplementing because it packs a greater punch than, say, a glass of orange juice. No reason not to both take a supplement and consume food/drink rich in Vitamin C. Magnesium is great too and will help you relax in the comedown. Beware though, not all Magnesium supplements are equally. Magnesium Oxide, for example, is not easily absorbed and tends to cause diarrhea which will strip the body of vitamins and minerals which is the opposite of what you want. Chelated Magnesium Glycinate is what you need for this purpose - it is absorbed at 90%+ compared to less than 10% for Magnesium Oxide. 500mg is enough for both Vitamin C and Magnesium. More doesn't hurt. You might not feel like eating but if you manage to eat a banana on the comedown, you'll certainly feel better for it the next day.

      I would encourage the first time user to dose very conservatively. Bad reactions are rare but they do happen. If one doses conservatively, there is no harm in boosting after a couple of hours if the drug is well tolerated. You'll get slight diminishing returns but if the first dose is small, this effect is negligible. 50mg to test the water is good, if the water is fine after 2 hours, go ahead and take 100mg more. To the person who is not naive, I'd tend to agree. Take one dose and enjoy. 150mg is my sweet spot. Much less is underwhelming and much more is a waste and really not healthy. This is actually a reasonably strong dose but consensus seems to be that it is not reckless. Redosing would be reckless, though. Plenty of people take more and they may have a good night but are almost certainly doing themselves harm. They might also turn a good night into a bad one by becoming too stimulated which can be uncomfortable or even fatal.
       
    9. reeax

      reeax Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      muscular neck issues
      Forget MDMA crap. The fact is that even if it works, you could use it only 2-3 times per year. And if you are not in a good mood, this could screw you up for a long time. Most of the time, you'll not even know what you are taking.
       
    10. sickofants

      sickofants Member

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/14
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sertraline (Zoloft)
      This was the other part I wanted to chime in on. MDMA is effective in reducing the perception of tinnitus via basically the same mechanism as an SSRI. Actually, MDMA is an SSRI. It is also a serotonin releasing agent. It will deplete your serotonin stores and if you take MDMA when you have no serotonin, it becomes especially neurotoxic and it will be an uncomfortable experience at best.

      To replenish serotonin stores, you can take 5-htp which metabolises into serotonin and melatonin. I don't suggest this so that MDMA can be used more frequently but to mitigate low mood following MDMA use. Anecdotally, sensible use (in terms of dose and frequency) doesn't lead to such a huge crash. It's not worse than a moderate alcohol hangover. Some people report an afterglow and no significant adverse effects. Also, unless you have a mental illness, it's not likely to "screw you up for a long time". I would suggest that you might even get more out of it if you're going through a difficult time. I find that I can reflect on my life in a positive and unselfish way and actually enjoy the process.

      There are ways to know pretty much exactly what you are taking and very pure MDMA can be sourced. You can get pills that have 300mg of MDMA which is unhealthy for everybody and dangerous for a smaller person. I wouldn't recommend pills unless you have a way of knowing exactly what is in them. It is more common to find MDMA in a crystal form which tends to be white or slightly off white yellow/brown. It has a distinctive smell - if you smell it once you will know it. Some people snort lines of MDMA... I don't recommend it. For a start, it burns quite a little bit. But it also makes for a more intense but shorter lived experience. If you get the crystal, crush it into as fine a powder as possible, then there are two ways to go. You can bomb it, which is to wrap in a cigarette paper or toilet tissue or similar and take with water. Personally, I like to dissolve it in milk - it creates a smoother experience that creeps up on you and plateaus for a good few hours. You're not quite as high but it lasts longer and the comedown isn't as harsh either.

      In terms of eating, you really don't want to have a full stomach but you also don't want to be deficient in nutrients. Eat a healthy meal about 3 hours before you dose.

      I am not trying to advertise MDMA but I wouldn't discourage anybody who is interested from trying it. For those people, it's better to do it properly and I'm trying to help in that regard. There's a strong chance you'll get some temporary tinnitus relief and if you're like most users that I know, you might figure out some coping mechanisms not just related to tinnitus, and you'll enjoy yourself while you do it.
       
    11. Chris Holland
      Movie buff

      Chris Holland Member

      Location:
      Amsterdam
      Tinnitus Since:
      November 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Life
    12. annV
      Fine

      annV Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown - possibly hereditary
      What are the effects of MDMA on a person with mental illness?

      I read every page of the thread and nobody here was cured by MDMA.
       
    13. Chris Holland
      Movie buff

      Chris Holland Member

      Location:
      Amsterdam
      Tinnitus Since:
      November 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Life
      Nothing really, MDMA (the pure chrystals) just make you very happy and euphoric. It makes you release extra serotonin, dopamine, and oxytocine.

      That's not saying anything really as you have no idea of the actual quality of the drug they took nor their dosage or if for this particular person it might've worked at all.
       
    14. Pleasure_Paulie

      Pleasure_Paulie Member

      Location:
      Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise or maybe... unicorns!
      At the end of this video -
      Tinnitus public lecture 8th February 2018:...
      he makes reference to the results of this study. Brain imaging suggests using MDMA has a similar effect on the brain to pre-tinnitus patients.
       
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    15. Pleasure_Paulie

      Pleasure_Paulie Member

      Location:
      Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise or maybe... unicorns!
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    16. jeff W

      jeff W Member

      Location:
      nakatomi plaza
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2012
    17. advocate21

      advocate21 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      Problem is MDMA depletes serotonin and will cause worse depression afterwards.
       
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    18. Roy114
      Thinking

      Roy114 Member

      Location:
      The Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise exposure (music festival)
      I'm a pretty regular MDMA user. It has no effect on my (noise-induced) tinnitus whatsoever. Only during your "trip" tinnitus won't bother you at all, even if its still there. This is because of the high levels of serotonin released into your brain. Your emotions will be overtaken by a feeling of joy and love. After the drug wears out it's back to normal. You might feel like your tinnitus is worse a few days after, but that's just because your serotonin is now incredibly low because the MDMA used it all, which also results in a feeling of sadness or emptiness and even feeling depressed. Over the next few days it will slowly return and everything will go back to normal.

      As for people with mental issues: Don't use MDMA.

      MDMA takes a toll on your brain, especially if you're not very mentally stable.

      On an interesting note: I live in the Netherlands and they're actually discussing making recreational use of MDMA legal, since there's so many crime related to MDMA and despite actions against usage a very large percentage of our population has used MDMA before (it's really popular here). So now they're coming to agree that its better to legalize it, since everyone will use it anyway and making it legal will kill off crime related to MDMA.
       
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    19. JohnAdams
      Starving

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      here
      Tinnitus Since:
      it started.
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      hearing loss
      MDMA is not a component of ecstacy, it is ecstacy.
       
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    20. kelpiemsp
      Swamped

      kelpiemsp Member Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      United States
      Tinnitus Since:
      birth/ recent spike 2/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Born with ETD, several acoustic traumas, most recently ETD
      Not in the US at least. Most X has very little MDMA. Infact it is usually very far away. It’s often bath salts mixed with coke, meth, and the likes.
       
    21. JohnAdams
      Starving

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      here
      Tinnitus Since:
      it started.
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      hearing loss
      That's not ecstacy. That's bath salts mixed with coke, meth, and the likes. Ecstacy is MDMA.
       
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    22. Agrajag364

      Agrajag364 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
    23. Drone Draper
      Jaded

      Drone Draper Member

      Location:
      U.K.
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL, ETD and work stress
      No way would I do MDMA, not for funsies and certainly not to cure tinnitus. Just read a horror story of a guy who did molly and had awful tinnitus afterwards on Reddit.
       
    24. Tom Cnyc

      Tom Cnyc Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Warehouse event after years of enjoying music.
      MDMA definitely, unequivocally, DOES NOT CAUSE tinnitus. It also doesn't make tinnitus worse. The next day you may be tired and the jaw grinding may leave you with a slight spike - but that's about it.

      MDMA is not a dangerous drug. Studies have it even below alcohol and marijuana in levels of harm. It has low potential for abuse because and is rarely used frequently.https://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/nov/02/david-nutt-dangerous-drug-list

      Anyone having a bad experience and leaving with horror stories needs to invest in a reagent testing kit because what they're taking is anything but MDMA. Similarly, anyone you know that "takes it all the time" is NOT taking it, because it literally stops working once serotonin is depleted.

      I'd make a money bet it's legal or quasi legal within a decade, and will be the first to be legalized after psychedelic mushrooms.
       
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    25. Tom Cnyc

      Tom Cnyc Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Warehouse event after years of enjoying music.
      Also, MDMA does not cure tinnitus. A friend of a friend would know.
       
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    26. Drone Draper
      Jaded

      Drone Draper Member

      Location:
      U.K.
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL, ETD and work stress
      The guy I was referencing had his tinnitus worsen, rather than it causing the tinnitus. I should have been more clear.

      Interesting bet.
       
    27. Valentin

      Valentin Member

      Location:
      Thailand
      Tinnitus Since:
      17/08/2013
      That's what we like to think but it rarely is the case.
       
    28. nills
      Barefooter

      nills Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      MDMA silences tinnitus for me completely for the duration of the experience. Blissful silence.

      Another drug called Kratom intensifies it and can create longterm spikes. It even has been the cause of tinnitus in some people... NEVER try it!
       
    29. blissaliss
      Swamped

      blissaliss Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic drugs/ maximum stressful job
      Haha would love it if doctors started prescribing MDMA for tinnitus. Haven't taken it since the 1990s... But made great fun!!

      As far as Kratom goes, I think it all has to do with what caused your tinnitus, to what spikes it.

      Baclofen probably caused my tinnitus, didn't realize the spike it gave me for almost a year, after I was taking it much less regularly than originally prescribed. They say Baclofen helps tinnitus in many cases... Not me.

      Kratom doesn't bother me, neither does caffeine or sugar.

      But I'm relatively new to Kratom use and am using it to get over alcohol.

      Alcohol immediately brings my tinnitus up. Since using Kratom my drinking high diminished to wanting to sleep. I have too much to do to sleep during happy hour.

      Lol.

      I'll be interested to see if my tinnitus level drops as I continue to take Kratom and if it continues to lower my desire to drink.
       
    30. nills
      Barefooter

      nills Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      Hey buddy, I would really be careful with Kratom use. It is highly addictive... Honestly no wonder you like to use it, because it is just replacing one high with another. It is known to give people tinnitus and that has nothing to do with what caused it. It is just plain brain chemistry. I used it again 2 weeks ago and my tinnitus has not come down ever since. I hate it, wish I never drank it again.

      Anyway, if you want to stop drinking you should microdose Ibogaine. The only other medicine that really heals addcition. I microdosed it for 6 weeks and stopped smoking even though I did not even want to ... the plant just makes you stop addictive behaviour.
       

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