My Trip to Bangkok: Stem Cell Treatment [Comments]

[bill 112]

I'm happy for you, and yes, H is like the devil, the worst is ear pain.. I have all the bad things too ! I'm very happy for you
Good thinks will arrive for H sufferers...the Silverstein surgery in one months, you and your injections asap !


Don't give up the fight. Nowadays I'm making laser but I wait for a eventual stem celles injections like the pioneers on this web site.

I have no choice now,I protected my hearing just got screwed over and now I have horrible H.Screw this shit for an existence it's time to take action!I really hope it works now

 

[monacco]

I think that I will sell my car in order to do this therapy I will discuss with my family if I get 50% réduction as ATOES ,I will live a normal life .
@bill 112 may be I will meet you in bankong

 

[bill 112]

I think that I will sell my car in order to do this therapy I will discuss with my family if I get 50% réduction as ATOES ,I will live a normal life .
@bill 112 may be I will meet you in bankong

Haha hopefully MonaccoI'm selling my car too,it's my pride and joy but this is more important,a 50% reduction would be a blessing!See you in Bangkok

 

[Vincent R]

I've decided to go ahead and do it in Bangkok.Me and my family are organising it as we speak,it's a big commitment from my family so we're not going to rush into it so anyone reading this please have patience as I will post the whole trip here on TT.I am also starting Chi-Kung soon with Kevin Barry and as promised I will post updates in the the appropriate thread also.Im excited but scared at the same time.

The fuck?! You plan to have a go at it? Well, the best of luck then There seems to be two different treatments at the clinic in Bangkok. This in the one attheedgeofscience went for:

Umbilical cord stem cells are now priced at USD 28,000,- (last year = USD 25,000,-)

As already pointed out, it cut his T by half.

This is the one FERNANDO GIL went for:

Adipose stem cells (= patient's own stem cells) is now priced at USD 19,000,- (last year = USD 15,000,-)

That seems to have worked out too:

I made a SC in September and got a decrease in my T as well.

But according to attheedgeofscience, using steam cells harvested from yourself is less effective:

Using your own stem cells should avoid any chance of rejection. But autologous stem cells from body fat are considered less potent (= cannot convert themselves into as many different cell types) and they are "old cells" (= cannot multiply as many times as young stem cells can; remember stem cells - after injection - start to multiply themselves as much as 50 times each).

Sources:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/inner-ear-hair-cell-regeneration-—-maybe-we-can-know-more.3131/page-17#post-64714

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/inner-ear-hair-cell-regeneration-—-maybe-we-can-know-more.3131/page-20

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/inner-ear-hair-cell-regeneration-—-maybe-we-can-know-more.3131/page-12#post-50084

 

[bill 112]

@Vincent R the way I look at it is,why wouldn't I try it?I was habituated to my T and living a happy life until one action wiped that out and left me with H that got worse from pretty much nothing!We only have one shot at life and I'm not prepared to live mine like this!Theres so much I want to accomplish and achieve in my life and I can't while I'm like this.So now I will embark on my mission for relief and hopefully a brighter future.Thanks for the info I'll have a read through those links now

 

[monacco]

@Vincent R
If it is needed to sell my car and a car of my father i will do it ,hopefully I get 50% of reduction when I back to my country I will leave the place where i live and go to the jungle and live there in silence

 

[Vincent R]

@Vincent R
If it is needed to sell my car and a car of my father i will do it ,hopefully I get 50% of reduction when I back to my country I will leave the place where i live and go to the jungle and live there in silence

Well, I assume steam cell treatment must be seen as a very expensive chance taking for Tinnitus-sufferers. But two members from TT has tried it out, and both report improvements. For those with money available and a feeling of nothing to loose, it will be tempting to try.

 

[arsalan]

I'm from India I read about unistem it's stem cells research company they claim to have treatment for H
I sent them message for inquiry
still no word from them
I have weak nerve in ear doctor said it's drying and told me to use hearing aid

 

[Reinier]

I've decided to go ahead and do it in Bangkok.

If you want investigate you probably want as much information as possible.
Beiki biotechnology came back to me and stated they had minimum success with NIHL.

I also filed out an application on this website. cellularsystemtreatment.com/main/good-candidate-stem-cells-therapy. There response was: "they experienced measurable improvements".
This can mean many things. You really need to do your homework and try to disconnect your emotions. Try to be as analytical as you can. Ask other people that are not experiencing hyperacusis to be involved in checking out options. Sometimes people tell you things you don't want to hear. That is when you need your analytical mind and not the emotional. I know how difficult that is.

I am not reluctant to fill out application forms when websites invite you to.
They can not force you to spend money. It is a long way from filling out an application form to actually spending money and undergoing treatment.

 

[Mithrandir]

I'm from India I read about unistem it's stem cells research company they claim to have treatment for H
I sent them message for inquiry
still no word from them
I have weak nerve in ear doctor said it's drying and told me to use hearing aid

Where did you find the fact, stem cells can kill H ?

 

[arsalan]

Where did you find the fact, stem cells can kill H ?

I mean restore hearing by regenerate auditory nerve / hair cell

I'm still researching about them
will let u know

 

[lymebite]

Stem Cells 21 has a pretty active Facebook page, they seem to post regularly:

https://www.facebook.com/Stem-Cells-21-438839462804164/?fref=nf

 

[monacco]

They treat all diseases

 

[matt89]

I think that I will sell my car in order to do this therapy I will discuss with my family if I get 50% réduction as ATOES ,I will live a normal life .
@bill 112 may be I will meet you in bankong

Haha hopefully MonaccoI'm selling my car too,it's my pride and joy but this is more important,a 50% reduction would be a blessing!See you in Bangkok

Before taking advantage of a stem cell treatment in case of tinnitus I would take the following points into account:

• Intravenous stem cell injections are effective in order to treat inner ear disorders like tinnitus and hearing loss, but intratympanic injections are more effective to treat such disorders. Therefore I would wait until there's an institution with ENT specialists providing intratympanic injections of mesenchymal stem cells (@attheedgeofscience mentioned that he is on the way to arrange such a treatment at a stem cell hospital).

• attheedgeofscience stated in his stem cell journal that the T volume in his left ear was reduced by about 30-35% and the T volume in his right ear was reduced by about 50%. That's not a general improvement of 50%. If you take the average it's more a 40% which is of course still a good percentage improvement (https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/my-trip-to-bangkok-stem-cell-treatment-journal.1884/#post-25081).

• This stem cell treatment and you should take that very carefully into account is not a cure. From what I have read attheedgeofscience is still on trobalt, maybe he can post an update on this. So a stem cell therapy in case of tinnitus is like playing poker with a $20k all-in. The chances to experience an improvement and get an amount of life quality back are higher if the best possible treatment conditions (e.g. intra-tympanic injections) are set up.

Furthermore like @Mithrandir I'm interested as well where you @bill 112 got information that stem cell therapy can cure/have an effect on hyperacusis?

 

[monacco]

@matt89
Thank you for the information
My T gets worse these days and wait for the intra-tympanic injections is a long way ,we dont know when it will be available.
So first I will do intravenous stem injections I hope i will get some relief .

 

[bill 112]

@matt89 Your information is greatly appreciated and be assured I'm taking every aspect of this trip into careful consideration.

As far stating its effectiveness for H I never claimed any such thing.That was another member so hopefully they can elaborate and their statement abit further.I'm considering this treatment as a"maybe I'll see improvement"rather than"I will see improvement"

It's a shot in the dark at the moment.

 

[Vincent R]

Before taking advantage of a stem cell treatment in case of tinnitus I would take the following points into account:

• Intravenous stem cell injections are effective in order to treat inner ear disorders like tinnitus and hearing loss, but intratympanic injections are more effective to treat such disorders. Therefore I would wait until there's an institution with ENT specialists providing intratympanic injections of mesenchymal stem cells (@attheedgeofscience mentioned that he is on the way to arrange such a treatment at a stem cell hospital).

• attheedgeofscience stated in his stem cell journal that the T volume in his left ear was reduced by about 30-35% and the T volume in his right ear was reduced by about 50%. That's not a general improvement of 50%. If you take the average it's more a 40% which is of course still a good percentage improvement (https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/my-trip-to-bangkok-stem-cell-treatment-journal.1884/#post-25081).

• This stem cell treatment and you should take that very carefully into account is not a cure. From what I have read attheedgeofscience is still on trobalt, maybe he can post an update on this. So a stem cell therapy in case of tinnitus is like playing poker with a $20k all-in. The chances to experience an improvement and get an amount of life quality back are higher if the best possible treatment conditions (e.g. intra-tympanic injections) are set up.

Furthermore like @Mithrandir I'm interested as well where you @bill 112 got information that stem cell therapy can cure/have an effect on hyperacusis?

Matt89 makes some good clarifications here. I wasn't very aware of the intravenous VS intratympanic way of injections.

Since ATEOS and FERNANDO GIL did experience improvements from steam cell therapy, T can not resonable be seen as an unbeatable monster any longer. Appearantly, it can be hurt, and if the medical science can find ways to cut deeper with regnerative treatments, who knows what the outcome would be? We aren't at the end of history, so there will be people who work on the problem.

 

[matt89]

@matt89
Thank you for the information
My T gets worse these days and wait for the intra-tympanic injections is a long way ,we dont know when it will be available.
So first I will do intravenous stem injections I hope i will get some relief .

It's just another technique done by an ENT instead of an intravenous injection.
Don't think that it will take too long for this kind of injection to be available. Maybe already this summer.

But what I'm wondering about at this moment is the following:

- Injections of stem cells either intravenous or intratympanic both should target the hair cells in the cochlea. The theory behind injected mesenchymal stem cells is that they can transform into hair cells when the reach the cochlea (the probability is high that they do it). As a consequence these "new" hair cells can settle down besides damaged hair cells (causing T) and take up their function.
- Intratympanic injections of Esketamine hydrochloride (AM-101) target the hair cells in the cochlea too. Esketamine should block damaged/overreacting hair cells (causing T).

Ok got it.
But now I have a problem and I'm irritated.

What about the assumption that T gets centralized in the brain after some months and there's another assumption stating that not hair cells are causing T and a defect inside the auditory cortex is the only cause (right from the beginning of T).

So let's say we follow (only) the first assumption with the centralization after some months (it's a prevailing assumption). How can mesenchymal stem cells injected via the eardrum or via the vein help chronic T sufferers assuming that T is at this time already centralized in the brain?
Regarding the target mesenchymal stem cell injections do not differ from Eskematine injections. They both target the cochlea and as far as I know mesenchymal stem cells are not able to change structures inside the auditory cortex where a chronic T is stored.

Regarding the aspects mentioned before how can injected mesenchymal stem cells help people with chronic T stored in the auditory cortex. Any thoughts?

 

[Penate]

OK is very simple when you fix the cell in the cochlea they start saying the right signal to the brain on the brain start sending positive signal of the noise no more tinnitus.

 

[Reinier]

What about the assumption that T gets centralized in the brain after some months

Like you wrote. This is, as far as I am aware, an assumption. Nobody knows what will happen with tinnitus when the damaged parts of the inner ear are able to be regenerated.

 

[matt89]

OK is very simple when you fix the cell in the cochlea they start saying the right signal to the brain on the brain start sending positive signal of the noise no more tinnitus.

Like you wrote. This is, as far as I am aware, an assumption. Nobody knows what will happen with tinnitus when the damaged parts of the inner ear are able to be regenerated.

It's a prevailing assumption that tinnitus gets centralized in the brain after a certain amount of time.
What @Penate means is the assumption that the auditory cortex will stop creating T signals (chronic T) the moment when it recognizes that there's a (healthy) hair cell available which transmits the same signal/frequency.

This could be the main difference between esketamine and mesenchymal stem cells.

• Esketamine can only stop damaged and overreacting hair cells (excessive glutamate neurotransmission) which means that it's only effective in case of the assumption that tinnitus is acute (only triggered by the inner ear) and has not become chronic (stored in the auditory cortex). Therefore esketamine cannot adjust T signals already stored in the auditory cortex and is mostly useless in case of chronic T.
• Mesenchymal stem cells can transform into new hair cells which can adjust the auditory cortex. The new healthy hair cells send signals to the auditory cortex. In that case the brain recognizes that there's a hair cell available sending the same signals that are already stored inside the auditory cortex (chronic T). As a result the brain reprograms the defective auditory cortex and the stored chronic T signals decrease and disappear.

 

[Sebastians]

I'm waiting until we get a group discount!

 

[Bobby B]

They did studies with long term chronic T sufferers where the auditory nerve was cut and over 50% experienced improvements and some a complete halt of T so that would not be possible if the brain was generating T on its own.

Something must be constantly coming from the ears.

 

[Leon909]

But according to attheedgeofscience, using steam cells harvested from yourself is less effective:

Yes, but if I'm not mistaken, in the Adipose stem cell treatment you get like 10x the amount of stem cells injected into your body compared to the umbilical cord stem cells.

 

[Reinier]

• Mesenchymal stem cells can transform into new hair cells which can adjust the auditory cortex.

The Mesenchymal stemm cells will also have the information where the new haircells need to form? Stored in DNA?
I watched the stemcells 21 clip. It was stated that the stem cell will go to areas where there is inflammation (and they also direct stem cells to the cochlea with peptide?). But will there still be inflammation after years of hearing loss and associated tinnitus and hyperacusus? Will the cells recognise that there are damaged cells in the cochlea when it is passed the acute phase?

It sounds like the treatment at stemcells 21 is the solution. It only needs refinement and most of all understanding what actually happens when people report/show improvement. They found a mechanism that regenerates the inner ear! That is why I think it sound to good to be true. Believe me when I say I want to believe this.

 

[monacco]

@matt89 @Reinier
We have two members here that reported an improvement with this therapy ,both they have a cronic T .So stemcell works on T even it is centralised in the brain (auditory cortex).and the intratympanic injection will more target the damaged parts.

 

[Reinier]

We have two members here that reported an improvement with this therapy ,both they have a cronic T .So stemcell works on T even it is centralised in the brain (auditory cortex).and the intratympanic injection will more target the damaged parts.

This is the reason why I am so interested in this treatment.
And perhaps @bill 112 will be number three?
Very interested to see what his experience is if he goes through with it.
I just cannot yet understand why it works. Especcially when you read all the documents from Stanford, Action On Hearing Loss, Hearing Health Foundation to name a few. They also are looking into stem cells for regeneration. Do they miss something? The stem cell clinics can make there treatment more transparent without giving away secrets as to why they are so far ahead of aforementioned scientists.
This will only boost confidence.

 

[monacco]

Hi Philip, thank you for your message. Yes we do offer Cell therapy for hearing loss and tinnitus. May I please have your email address for me to be able to send you the necessary infos that you needed. -vincent/coordinator


This is their reply, I asked him about the apointement

They told me that I will receive an émail tomorrow

 

[jdjd09]

Does the stem cell treatment have a timeline for hearing loss? Or is it pretty well established that if you are younger and only had hearing loss for a few years, that it can work? I would love to do this to get my hearing back...but I may be a few years before I have money to do this.

 

[Alue]

It's just another technique done by an ENT instead of an intravenous injection.
Don't think that it will take too long for this kind of injection to be available. Maybe already this summer.

But what I'm wondering about at this moment is the following:

- Injections of stem cells either intravenous or intratympanic both should target the hair cells in the cochlea. The theory behind injected mesenchymal stem cells is that they can transform into hair cells when the reach the cochlea (the probability is high that they do it). As a consequence these "new" hair cells can settle down besides damaged hair cells (causing T) and take up their function.
- Intratympanic injections of Esketamine hydrochloride (AM-101) target the hair cells in the cochlea too. Esketamine should block damaged/overreacting hair cells (causing T).

Ok got it.
But now I have a problem and I'm irritated.

What about the assumption that T gets centralized in the brain after some months and there's another assumption stating that not hair cells are causing T and a defect inside the auditory cortex is the only cause (right from the beginning of T).

So let's say we follow (only) the first assumption with the centralization after some months (it's a prevailing assumption). How can mesenchymal stem cells injected via the eardrum or via the vein help chronic T sufferers assuming that T is at this time already centralized in the brain?
Regarding the target mesenchymal stem cell injections do not differ from Eskematine injections. They both target the cochlea and as far as I know mesenchymal stem cells are not able to change structures inside the auditory cortex where a chronic T is stored.

Regarding the aspects mentioned before how can injected mesenchymal stem cells help people with chronic T stored in the auditory cortex. Any thoughts?

It's not always the hair cells. It's more the auditory nerves that are the problem starting out. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4227662/

As far as centralization, when it occurs and how to tell if it has, that's something I have often wondered about. Nobody seems to really know the answer.