New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

Discussion in 'Research News' started by Hudson, Jun 20, 2013.

    1. Christiaan
      Inspired

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      The Hague, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2016: headphones, 2020: worsened thanks to Rammstein
      The TU Delft device and Auricle are both bimodal stimulation devices.

      And yeah, he mentioned that he aims to alter the fusiform cell activity in the DCN with the TU Delft device in the same way as Susan Shore's Auricle.
       
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    2. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Syringing + Somatic tinnitus from dental work
      Yes.

      https://craft.co/electrocore/locations

      electroCore has many patents for modulation neurotransmitters and immune function through its effects on both the peripheral and central nervous systems.

      gammaCore is similar to that of the University of Michigan device.
       
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    3. Jerad

      Jerad Member

      Location:
      Ohio; United States
      Tinnitus Since:
      2002
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Medication ototoxicity
      I don’t want to be too overly presumptuous or negative because, like all things with tinnitus, nobody really knows for sure. But my gut feelings have never been super enthused with this device. It may help mild or moderate cases, but I think it’s going to take a lot more than just a sound and electrical zapper to help the severe ones; something oral perhaps, like XEN1101, implanted electrodes, or DBS. But maybe I’m wrong. We have to remember that @linearb was helped by Susan Shore’s device. So that’s a big plus.

      The waiting game is torture, especially for those who are suffering severely. When they feel a treatment is their lifeboat on a ship that’s sinking, we can certainly understand why. And it’s sad because they just want to know if the thing works for most. They don’t want to wait another year and find out it doesn’t. If they knew it was promising right now, waiting and patience would be easier feats. They’d be uplifted and motivated to endure because they’d finally believe we have something that works. Waiting and not knowing, though, feeds into that hopelessness and doubtfulness that often plagues us. We’ve seen treatments come and go that promised eternity, but ultimately sucked, like Lenire. We don’t want to be burned again.
       
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    4. DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      No. But, it would give people who are really struggling, hope to hang on.
       
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    5. Gb3

      Gb3 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sshl
      Of course but unfortunately they have to be a little patient. People are already on here predicting that the results are bad.
       
    6. TrevorSanders

      TrevorSanders Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Exposure/Ototoxic Medication
      Yea. I don’t think these companies understand that what they say (or don’t say) directly influences whether some people off themselves or not.
       
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    7. Gb3

      Gb3 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sshl
      Didn’t you back out of the OTO-313 trial?
       
    8. Blix M. Paraglot

      Blix M. Paraglot Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      mild since 90s - serious since 2000s
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music.
      Not just @linearb. Also @kelpiemsp. He was in the Minnesota trial under Dr. Lim (who, granted, hurt his own credibility with some here by later working for Neuromod*).

      @kelpiemsp had very loud tinnitus and debilitating hyperacusis. He experienced a big decrease and his hyperacusis improved to the point where his big dog barking indoors didn't bother him. (!)

      "Hi all just an update. I received the -15 timing, and I have to say I had the quietest weekend since this spike started. I even took a nap without masking. Anyways, it's slowly coming back, but it's not as loud as before. Plus I have done a few things that should have aggravated it (long bike ride, mowed lawn, saw a concert) This reduction has been 7-10 dB. I am very much looking forward to the next study where I can wear it every day. It might just be my evening peak (it tends to be a bit louder at night) I had my doubts immediately after the trial, but in my experience this plasticity takes time. For what its worth I experienced a couple firsts (since my new spike started) this weekend: sleep without masking, sleep with my ear against a pillow, and got like 3 hours with silence. That was pleasant."​

      This was during one of the trials in which @kelpiemsp participated. His tinnitus dropped ~10 dB during the Minnesota clinical trial.

      One conclusion from his experiences is that bimodal stimulation must be used regularly to manage tinnitus volume. Tinnitus will come back after being off the treatment, so it must be thought of as a daily part of a routine, like taking insulin. I'm okay with that.

      I don't know why Dr. De Ridder has changed his tune (if he has) about bimodal stimulation actually attenuating tinnitus. That is why the technology is being considered in the first place.

      *Keep in mind that the Minnesota trial had nothing to do with Lenire. Different device, different protocols.
       
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    9. DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      But he also said Naltrexone (in his paper) would treat distress only... we now know this isn't true (e.g., @Johnny Karate).
       
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    10. DaveFromChicago

      DaveFromChicago Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu
      Thanks ever so much for responding to the rank insensitivity contained in that "Deal With It" remark.

      "The sense of entitlement is mindblowing?"

      Aussie Lea should be reminded that, regarding our 800,000 plus Armed Service people who are on disability because of this, yes in fact the American Government has a real obligation to do everything it can to find an effective treatment.

      These kids volunteered to go to two wars in the Middle East and be subjected to the myriad amounts of massive noise that necessarily accompanies a modern wartime situation. (One Example: A Vietnam Vet told me that, even if you were 100 feet away from a 155mm howitzer, when it was fired the sound waves were powerful enough to penetrate your body such that you were completely lifted off your feet).

      After what they sacrificed for their Country, they can have a quite legitimate sense of entitlement for finding an effective treatment for a condition that is admittedly invisible but nonetheless a very real wartime injury.
       
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    11. kingsfan
      Mellow

      kingsfan Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Southern California
      Tinnitus Since:
      9-17-20 / 10-20-20 / 3-31-21 / 5-23-21
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      turning everything up to 11
      What a serious tease to have been in those studies, seen dramatic improvement, only to be left waiting years to have the opportunity to use it again. It doesn't seem right.
       
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    12. Blix M. Paraglot

      Blix M. Paraglot Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      mild since 90s - serious since 2000s
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music.
      And the thing is, the Minnesota clinical trial was getting fantastic results, possibly even better than Dr. Shore's device. But it seems to have gone nowhere after the conclusion of the trial. And Auricle is taking an eternity, in spite of being "almost ready for commercial release" a year ago. Some of us don't have any more eternities left.
       
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    13. Joey72
      Approved

      Joey72 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      4/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Thanks for reminding people of us vets. Too often we are forgotten.
       
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    14. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Syringing + Somatic tinnitus from dental work
      In the link below, I placed a Dirk De Ridder patent with discussion at the top of page. Notice patent date. You could contact company indicated for research progress. Patent is also listed at bottom of page.

      One can view all simulation patents that would be needed for tinnitus and hyperacusis towards bottom of link. Seen will be that electroCore owns most of the patents needed for tinnitus and hyperacusis including trigeminal and vagus nerve therapy.

      You can contact electroCore for discussion per the University of Michigan and their accompanied partnerships and a lot will be expressed as confidential. Any comment by me on this would be hearsay. Not sure what is going on - cooperation, legal, either or more. We will know soon. Since electroCore is a public company, public statements are needed. So far, electroCore has FDA approvals for headaches and some other therapies. They have stated that they plan to undertake other therapies, some of which has been specifically noted.

      US20060100671A1 - Stimulation of the amygdalohippocampal complex to treat neurological conditions - Google Patents
       
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    15. DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      This is some correspondence I have received from one of Dr. Shore's PhD students (who worked with her during the earlier trials) regarding the situation:
       
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    16. DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      A friend wrote to Dr. Shore recently. Here is her response:
       
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    17. Paul1980

      Paul1980 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Music, prescription drugs
      By "market ready" I think he was saying there is a large market of several million users that is out there, and once the product is ready, and proven, there won't be a need to convince people to try it. In other words, it could be a gold mine for an investor.

      I don't think he meant anything beyond that, especially that the device is ready to go to market, which it clearly isn't until it goes through the FDA process, which could take who knows how long.
       
    18. TrevorSanders

      TrevorSanders Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Exposure/Ototoxic Medication
      Yea. I got nervous and decided not to follow through with it. I regret my decision though.
       
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    19. Jason Ranovik

      Jason Ranovik Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Thank you for the kind words, but please note that I am not an expert on the FDA approval process, only on the scientific method and publishing in journals. I can guesstimate at dates for results, and I can understand and help interpret those results for everyone else, but I have no idea how long the FDA will take to approve something like this.

      I am a scientist, but not of the medical kind :)

      Regarding the delays: I wouldn't worry too much about that. If there were any real problems, or if they had strong reason to believe that the device is not / would not be successful, they would just cancel the trial without completing it and spend the saved money on some other research. More realistically, it's entirely COVID-19-related. The study is 36 weeks long for each participant, and they likely don't have the resources (staff, equipment) to do all 300 participants at once, so they probably staggered them out. What I imagine happened is something like this:
      • Originally targeted to finish the study some time in 2020?
      • Any of many different issues caused a delay for at least 8 months, pushing to end of 2020 / early 2021
      • In early 2020, they were recruiting their final batch of participants
      • COVID-19 happened, participants can't travel, clinic shuts down for a year or so?
      • Mid-2021, they restart the study, recruit and start their final batch of participants
      • 36 weeks for that batch to finish brings us to early 2022
      In summary, I must reiterate my main point from the original post: don't take the Phase I results too seriously, don't read too much into the delay of Phase II, and just wait for the Phase II results before deciding to keep or give up hope for this treatment.

      As soon as the Phase II results are released or formally published, I will review them and write a comprehensive post going into all the details in a way that is easy for everyone to understand.
       
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    20. Rb86

      Rb86 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      5/31/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      The thing is, it's a device. Not sure if it's really crucial to have FDA approval. If it's as good as they claim, many would buy it, and word will travel fast of its efficacy.
       
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    21. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      FDA approval is only crucial if you want to sell it in the US. ;) Joking aside my understanding is that they still need FDA approval but process is less rigorous than it would be for a drug or an implant.
       
    22. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      57424501.jpg
       
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    23. Rb86

      Rb86 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      5/31/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      I'm serious. There are all kinds of supplements being sold - things that are ingested and made to help "_______". They just have to say on the label not approved by the FDA.

      Here we have a device. Sure, FDA approval is a large bolstering to their attractiveness but the bottom line is, it either works or it doesn't. As desperate as we the tinnitus community are, we'd buy anything targeted at us, and the first hundred or two people would say this is amazing it's really helping me or this thing isn't doing anything. Make it available and we, the community, will shoot that thing to the stars if it's as good as they claim.

      20 years is bullshit now. Shit or get off the pot.
       
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    24. Hottopic29

      Hottopic29 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Niagara falls
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Zithromycin acoustic trauma 2022
      I think Dr. Shore's device can be approved by the FDA in 6 months once they submit it since it falls under a certain category like a TENS device. It's not a medicine or implantable device that can cause major harm.
       
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    25. prowlinacage

      prowlinacage Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/10/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Long-term noise exposure
      That's just not how real-deal science works or should work. And Dr. Shore is the real deal. It's been disappointing to read some of the negative speculative comments here regarding the completion of her study and the potential roll-out of the device. I'm as anxious as anyone here to learn whether or not this thing pans out, but the last thing I want is for her and her team to rush anything.
       
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    26. DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      I am curious to understand why you would be disappointed to read some of the 'negative speculative comments' regarding the completion of her study and roll out...?

      The way I see it is many of us are dangling by a thread. I totally get why people are distressed by the uncertainty.

      I think for many here, there is a sense of urgency to getting access to the results and potential roll out because of the level of suffering that is evident here.

      I doubt speculation from the tinnitus community is going to influence Dr. Shore's scientific timeline.
       
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    27. SR88

      SR88 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Because it just amplifies the frustration and provides no value. For example, the post saying FDA approval is not necessary where just a page or two back the CEO clearly said that FDA approval is driving the process.

      There are people that are trying to offer informed guidance or predictions, like Jason, and there are those that are just venting. I would prefer to hear from the former.
       
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    28. Uklawyer

      Uklawyer Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Medication - antidepressants
      Indeed. If the results were really positive and a working schedule for approval and availability were provided, we would be massively uplifted.
       
    29. InNeedOfHelp

      InNeedOfHelp Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      MRI Scan
      Reversing Synchronized Brain Circuits With Targeted Auditory-Somatosensory Stimulation to Treat Phantom Percepts

      Updated April 27

      Estimated Primary Completion Date:
      July 2022
      Estimated Study Completion Date:
      July 2022

      Bunch of BS. I guess that is the unblinding date if the last patient has already been closed? I guess unblinding is done by a external notary as formality but waiting three bloody months for that is a waste of time. I was in the "good research takes time camp" but this is wasting time and has nothing to do with research.

      You bet the TU Delft/Dirk de Ridder will be available much earlier then Auricle. Since EU does not have EMA approval required on this, if there are positive results Dirk de Ridder can start using the device instantly. He is agile and flexible in that sense.
       
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    30. Uklawyer

      Uklawyer Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Medication - antidepressants
      What's the difference?
       
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