The Story of Gaby Olthuis

I would imagine that severe depression, anxiety and many other things play their part. Tinnitus can be overcome, it's the combination of the management of the psychological or physical conditions that accompany it that drive people to the edge - In my opinion.

Just think of the millions who have tinnitus, estimated 1 in 10 across the world. And think of how many stories there are of suicide related to tinnitus.

 

The incidence of suicidal ideation is higher in the tinnitus population than in the general population. The actually suicide rates are identical.

Stephen Nagler

 

I talked with Dan about it first, the thread title has now been changed.

Whatever anybody thinks about the story the title is now a reference to the individual and not a sensationalist headline.

 

@Steve Good call Steve; great idea.

 

Not my idea but a very good one.

 

until the medical community takes tinnitus seriously, there will not be a cure only more banquets and awards nights

 

Yup exactly. Frusterating.

 

I hate the vitriol in this thread (only from a select few, mind you), but it's expected when something polarizing like this appears.

I do not think newbies should have to see this sort of "news". However, with how low the bar is set for most journalism these days, we probably should try to siphon all "news" into its own section, so people can post newspaper stories, blog posts, online articles, etc. to that form. Something like "journalist coverage" where we link to any article of that type, and make a HUGE note on the top of the board to warn users that any tinnitus related story can be posted there, positive or negative.

Not every news article should go there - just the ones whose contents aren't covered by the current forums. We should put research news in the Research forum, Treatment news in the treatment forum, and so on. Any stories about someone's life struggles with tinnitus or someone getting tinnitus from a bar fight or someone losing their tinnitus out of the blue, and so on should all go into the "Journalism Coverage (news, blogs, etc.)" . Just anything that doesn't fit the others.

Given that this board is the top tinnitus forum, by far, for a condition so many people have, I personally believe we should include all information posted - true, sensationalized, or fake. As a big proponent of the power of the internet, I view tinnitustalk as sort of a place where any tinnitus related discussion can be found, on the research, on supporting, on the news, etc.

If people who are sensitive to that information are looking for it, they're going to find it. If they come here, at least they will know that there is a particular forum where the journalism stories, reasonable or sensational, will be posted, and to realize that you're not in the story, and you have your own, so don't project the people in the articles upon yourself (which is a problem a lot of people have).

 

You know I could not have said it better myself Champ.

 

Many things bother me about this euthanasia story. One of them is context. Tinnitus was not the cause of Gaby's death. She chose to die because she could not see a solution to her suffering. Not seeing a solution is indicative of depression, not tinnitus. Poor Gaby needed help from a mental health professional instead of an euthanasia doctor. How different her future might've been had she seen one like this man below:

Here is an excerpt from a 2013 PBS special:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/science-july-dec13-tinnitus_11-06/

It was six months earlier that the 66-year-old electrical engineer first awoke to a dissonant clamor in his head. There was a howling sound, a fingernails-on-a-chalkboard sound, “brain zaps” that hurt like a headache and a high frequency “tinkle” noise, like musicians hitting triangles in an orchestra.

Many have since disappeared, but two especially stubborn noises remain. One he describes as monkeys banging on cymbals. Another resembles frying eggs and the hissing of high voltage power lines. He hears those sounds every moment of every day.

De Mong was diagnosed in 2007 with tinnitus, a condition that causes a phantom ringing, buzzing or roaring in the ears, perceived as external noise.

When the sounds first appeared, they did so as if from a void, he said. No loud noise trauma had preceded the tinnitus, as it does for some sufferers — it was suddenly just there. And the noises haunted him, robbed him of sleep and fueled a deep depression. He lost interest in his favorite hobby: tinkering with his ‘78 Trans Am and his two Corvettes. He stopped going into work.

De Mong visited an ear doctor, who told him he had high frequency hearing loss in both ears. Another doctor at the Stanford Ear, Nose and Throat clinic confirmed it, and suggested hearing aids as a possibility. They helped the hearing, but did nothing for the ringing.

Meanwhile, he scoured the internet for cures. He spent $700 on “miracle drugs” and vitamins marketed for tinnitus. He tried 10 sessions of acupuncture. But his depression and insomnia were getting worse. He had become suicidal.

“I just wanted to go into a cave and either get well or die,” he said. [emphasis added]

So in November, at the urging of a therapist and fearful of his own behavior, he checked himself into the nearest emergency room.

“If I had a light switch, and I could have clicked that light switch and been dead, I would have done it,” he said. “I would have done it. But suicide is a complicated thing. I didn’t have a gun, I didn’t have the medicine to do it, I didn’t like heights. So how do you take yourself off the planet?”

When relief finally came for De Mong, it was not in the form of a tinnitus specialist or an ear doctor, but a psychiatrist. He was referred to the doctor after several hours of hospital observation. While he insisted his problem was the ringing, she diagnosed him as depressed and prescribed sleeping pills and an antidepressant, Effexor. Finally, he said, he began to sleep. And slowly, the depression — and along with it, the severity of his tinnitus — began to improve. It’s a message he wants others suffering from the condition to know. [emphasis added]

“If you’ve got ringing in the ears, the first thing you should do is see a psychiatrist,” he said. “She saved my life.”

 

The major problem with the lead post in this topic was the original title given to it, which further sensationalized and distorted the story.

 

@jazz
Good points. Op post briefly tells about the camera man making sounds, came off as a good round of h as well. It isnt wrong saying suicide based on t, but nor is it exactly the grand scheme

 

Judgement values are a way to promote change by inflicting guilt. However, they are not effective, because our victim is more likely to deviate her energies in self defense, counterattack, and feel low self-esteem because of it. They don't foster understanding either, because a label simplifies a person to the extreme, and says nothing of her reasoning.

At the core of disdain and anger, there is judgment, labels, and thoughts of blame. A belief that someone's actions are the origin of conflict and deserve to be punished. This is also the first step towards physical violence. But punishment doesn't satisfy anyone's needs, nor does it doesn't explain what is the origin of their actions. Justice based on punishment is alienated from life.

Compassion is a common human trait in nearly all the population. We should use it to evaluate ourselves, expose our feelings, and be conscious of our will to enrich our life and the life of others. This is a free and joyful force. Example: you feel sad because her children will lose their mother, and you would like her to be there for them. Vulnerability is the birthplace of understanding and change.

I've been through my share of depression and chronic physical pain, and from those dark times I know that there is such thing as not having the will to live anymore. Cognitive therapy can help to a point, but the pain is real, and can be overwhelming. We do not know her suffering, and likely we won't find out on our own. I don't think we should aim to fix it, analyze it, change it, or solve it, without first connecting emotionally with her state and needs. The more you try to do something to someone, the less you pay attention to them.

 

TRT will not help everyone. Some people like me have their T get worst when hearing sound. It does not help everyone. Mine get worst when I move around. If I start to walk if gets louder. If I jump or try to jog or run it sounds like my head is going to explode. TRT will not help that. Everyone does not have T the same. The T probably was driving her crazy 24 hours a day and she could not take it anymore. Keeping how bad T can be under the carpet will lead to only one thing, nothing. These trials you speak of, even if the work, sound like she would not be candidate anyway.

 

From what I understand from people who are more familiar with the story over there, she did try many different avenues that did not work for her, and it was a long process. Yes, everyone's t is different, our reactions to t, our reactions to treatments. None of us on here can judge her decision or even begin to know what she has been through.

 

I understand what your saying but I don't think TRT is suppose to change the volume of your t. It is more aimed at helping an individual to stop attributed negative reactions and feeling to t from what I know. Obviously all t is different and some louder t would be harder to habituate. Does your t permanently stay risen at those levelsor do thwy come back down?

 

Sounds about right to me, cullen. I agree with you.

The loudness of tinnitus does not affect TRT success rates; Dr. Jastreboff is emphatic about that, and I agree.

However, I think it fair to say that louder tinnitus is harder to habituate in general. That's just not the experience within the TRT community.

Stephen Nagler

 

I understand that its logical that it is being discussed here whether her choice was right or not, however I just wanted to point out that this should not be the factor that is taken into consideration when deciding whether this topic should be here. Whether what she decided was correct or not is a matter of personal opinion and regardless a story like that might have a negative influence on others. just wanted to point that out. Doesn't mean that it shouldn't be discussed here though. However I have to say that the journalist doesn't seem to have done much homework. I would have expected her to ask more questions about which treatments she has tried, to provide an overview of them and thinking about other sufferers provide a positive note as well. The society is very sensitive towards verbal expressions nowadays, and i dont think she considered that. Also, as Olthuis was a psychotherapist it would be interesting to know whether she had heard about TRT and what her opinion was.
If anybody is interested in reading or discussing the topic of euthanasia/assisted suicide you can contribute to the topic General Chat as well.

 

I did find a recent reference to suicide and tinnitus from 2012. This study suggests suicide rates are rare for tinnitus sufferers. I agree with this, for most tinnitus cases--even for people with severe tinnitus--tend to improve over time. And severe, intrusive unremitting tinnitus is rare.

That said, the article also states that people with "severe, disabling tinnitus" and a co-existing psychological disorder, e.g., depression, need to be screened for treatment. It appears that severe tinnitus and a psychological disorder does increase your rate for suicide. And this is also evidenced in the PBS story I cited above. In sum, if treat the psychological disorder then you'll also help mitigate the stress and misery from the tinnitus.


Otolaryngol Head Neck Surg. 2012 Aug;147(2):193-5. doi: 10.1177/0194599812446286. Epub 2012 Apr 24.

Tinnitus and suicide: recent cases on the public record give cause for reconsideration.

Pridmore S1, Walter G, Friedland P.
Author information

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22535918

Abstract
Suicides among tinnitus sufferers are rare. Indeed, on examining the public record (newspapers and the Web), the authors identified only 4 cases in the past 10 years that had been examined by a coroner. Nevertheless, the deaths of Rick Tharp, Dietrich Hectors, William Morris, and Robert McIndoe prompt reconsideration of the association between tinnitus and suicide that appears to be weak. The article also draws attention to a subject that is receiving attention in the medical literature--namely, the role of "precipitants" (in this case, tinnitus) in completed suicide and the need to screen some cases of severe, disabling tinnitus for the presence or absence of coinciding psychopathology, which is very amenable to treatment.

 

I have just read in the news that two different families have filed a complaint in Belgium because according to them their euthanized relatives suffered from an untreated severe depression. Both euthanasias were supervised by the same physician.

Being a psychotherapist means squat in the Benelux. There is no formal protection of the title so anybody can exercise as a psychotherapist. Here, they are usually people who have flunked Every university/vocational school programme or have lost their job and try a reorientation of their life. Most are semi crackpots.

Even psychologists and psychiatrists don't call themselves psychotherapists Here.

 

A study from the 90's re suicide and t:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8174302

 

haha, unfortunately that's what tinnitus does to severe sufferers - it isolates them because they can't do many of the things they did before and since tinnitus hits mostly people over 50 in this time many people undergo midlife crisis ... so its a catch 22.
So yes, its easy to blame social isolation on tinnitus suicide, but have they determined what exactly caused this isolation? Its also easy to blame depression on tinnitus, but I would bet the tinnitus caused the depression.
I was not socially isolated before tinnitus and I wasn't particularly depressed (sure I had problems like everybody else), but since tinnitus happened I am 1000% both of those things without a doubt.

 

Yep, H is another horror that people are leaving out of this discussion. Hang in there.

 

This is a delicate one.

The thread should come with a warning, so that the vulnerable can steer clear.

But the topic is worthy of discussion and good points have been made.

To all Newbies: chances are HIGH you'll be fine. Most are.

Go check out any of Billie48's posts. He is a beautiful guy, I can tell from reading his words.

Now go away, don't read any further.


To continue.

Years ago when I had what I considered to be 'bad' tinnitus I would have been appalled by her action.

Now that I have what I consider to be catastrophic tinnitus, I have more empathy.

I also feel for the doctors involved. If my dog was suffering like me I'd certainly release him.

I habituated to my old tinnitus after quite a struggle but not all tinnitus is the same my friends.

I have dragged myself through nearly 2000 days of intense suffering and each second prayed for release.

TRT, CBT, medicine, etc, has not helped.

Life a vacuum. Family, home, job. Gone.

This is not normal tinnitus. The brain can unleash some powerful stuff.

I was an architect who loved life. Movies, books, conversation, travelling, fitness, everything on God's earth.

And my own habituated tinnitus I could also hear above Niagra Falls, if i tuned into it. That was easy.

Now i can't even sit in my bed or go to the shops or anything.


Tinnitus at its worst is not what most people would recognize or understand as tinnitus.
The funniest thing i hear people say is: "Tinnitus, yeah, I got that"

I've read a few stories on various boards about people who find their tinnitus extremely loud or painful, but not many.
Some have conquered it within a year, some have been lucky enough to be able to mask, it's a lottery.
Some will have got better anyway, literally recovered, but attributed it to some therapy maybe.

Look, the future is not a place i see clearly anymore. I just want help. Yes, that's my 'distorted' reaction to pain.

But there have been times when i just wanted to hack off my own head to get relief. I have harmed myself so many times I'm full of scars.

To those who say they know people with painful conditions, I forgive their naivety.I also suffer fibromyalgia with needle-like pain travelling through my eyes, rheumatoid arthritis, and lower back damage with terrible sciatic pain.
I can assure you the combination is pretty bad but the tinnitus takes the award. I'd happily have limbs amputated in exchange for no tinnitus and I'm not alone. Just imagine. Talking to friends, laughing, watching movies, sleeping, thinking, being, relaxing, looking at your laptop on a beach, going for a drive, hugging someone, all without the accompanying blast of high-pitch signals. I wonder if Gaby Olthius felt the same way.

If I knew Gaby, I'm sure she'd want something good to come out of her death. That's how I'd feel. The last thing I guess she'd ever want is to be brushed under the carpet as some Inconvenient Truth.

To be a tinnitus 'martyr' would bring value to her sacrifice. One life for the hope of a cure. Nobody of sound mind wants to die, remember that, so it it is a terrible decision to make, especially if you are a Christian in terms of final destinations.

I'm actually relieved, considering global numbers, that there aren't numerous reported tinnitus suicides. But there's reasons for that. Look at me. Basically I want to live. Extrapolating, there must be 1000s of people in private torment. And of course many suicides are attributed to depression, where the underlying cause may be tinnitus. And for many who live on the edge of suicide with really terrible tinnitus to be told that they probably have a comorbid psychological disorder is a bit of a slap in the face. Sadly, a lot of 'studies' don't really carry much weight but can be harmfully misleading.

As a temporary spokesperson for the silent bad sufferers (not all of whom visit forums), I'd like someone in some tinnitus organization PR room to run with the Gaby story and put it in the New york Times. Is it REALLY too gruesome? I don't think so. the news is full of gruesome.

We need to publicize, high-profile the potential severity of this condition, so that funds drive research. I think the real problem behind the scenes is the 'common wisdom' that there's already a cure, TRT, the 80" success rate. You just DON'T get that with cancer or MS or parkinson's. They don't have a 80% success rate. Gentlemen we are victims of our own 'success' and if we can't emulate the habituators then it's our fault for not re-reading Henry & Wilson. Could we even be an embarrassment to the community perhaps? But, I say, bring it on. Give us Autifony. Give us pharmacological relief and hope. For those who don't need that, well consider yourselves fortunate. Like I was, the first time round.

I must stress that there's a lot of great support here for those who have Tinnitus and very many recover, most I imagine. I did. But we must realize that thousands live in a terrible state. Gaby's decision wasn't an instant one. Remember, she did withstand 13 years. So Gaby's memory must be honored and utilized to serve those who suffer intolerably. Her family would surely want nothing less.

As far as I'm concerned, i would like to habituate just like Billie48. Apparently, it can be done.

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/human-exceptionalism/396650/dutch-eutanasia-tinnitus-wesley-j-smith

Dutch have accepted T as eligible for euthanasia.
Im horrified . T IS not cancer!!!!

What do you think about this ?

 

@john2012 I agree , I would gladly give a limb to be rid of this hellish noise.
I sometimes wonder if I have "regular T" or what , my friend has T but only hears it occassionally when very tired and tells me he "knows" what its like. I wake up every day like I was hit with a baseball bat over the head, literally!
Sometimes my head is completely coming apart , no amount of masking or "not thinking about it" is sufficient , its super physical , I can feel it like a laser through my head . Its excruciating!

Life has in many ways lost its color for me , all the little things that are impossibel to enjoy...sucks!
I cannot live like this for 13 years , no way , no way in hell!

If this person had a really super bad case of T , I totally get why she would cut it short and I do feel its her choice to make.

 

You don't have "regular T", otherwise you won't be here anymore after such a long time.
With milder T, I also won't be here anymore. Of course I still would be here just to help others.
T is like a loud laser oscillating in my head. As you said, no amount of masking, "not thinking about it", "not listening to it" or "ignoring it" has helped so far. I have days where I can cope better, others where it is just torture.
But at the end I fear we had just bad luck and got a profound or catastrophic T.
We can live with it, suffer with it, but we have no choice. S... is no option.

 

Obviously, some petty individuals here profoundly underestimate her suffering. Her tormenting T-noise. This woman suffered greatly for over 13 years! Mind you, thirteen years! You guys have absolutely NO clue what she went through. Instead of bickering about reality rather face it. Habituate! I know, I know it's a phenomenon and it takes time to grasp but it works. But NOT for every T sufferer! Period.

I'm pretty sure she had the access and information about all available treatments for her condition. And that she did try everything there is, but NOTHING did help her. She was a freakin' therapist! She probably counseled other T patients. So, judging her decision to end her misery without knowing anything about her is plain aloof ignorance. Don't be so self-righteous.

I can relate to how she felt. My T is extreme. @RaZaH I feel you.

Let me ask you this, if there were no T related suicides (deaths) why should any physician in the world take this ailment serious? After all, as so many say, 'it's just a sound in the head.' Right? So go get used to it. You have all your lifetime for it.

I have to quote @Lisa88 's beautiful reasonable mind because she made some grand points!

Also,

Special thanks to @dan for posting this article. IMO it should be in the news 24/7.
~

_One more thing, I cannot see how this story is off topic. It shows how bad one can suffer due to T. And that we need a solution that addresses the problem ASAP.

 

Actually this just reminded me when the reply sprang up, thought I'd posted but must have missed it. The clinic have been reprimanded as "careless" in this case because the treatment options were not properly explored

http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/01/19/clinic-reprimanded-tinnitus-euthanasia/