Tinnitus Retraining Therapy Is Ineffective, Latest Study Finds

Discussion in 'Research News' started by annV, May 25, 2019.

    1. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      I agree disagreement isn't a bad thing. In fact I'm a firm believer in voicing one's opinion but that's not what I'm referring to and you know that all to well.

      All the best
      Michael
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    2. TibuJenkins

      TibuJenkins Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear wax removal with suction by ENT
      Is there a reason why this needs to be so adversarial? One would think we are all in the same "team" here.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    3. Silvio Sabo
      Pooptoast

      Silvio Sabo Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Gothenburg, Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2006
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise - I think
      I don't have the citations from studies or so but if you think about it logically you will come to the conclusion that most people do learn to move on. The figures are that around 10-15% of the general population experiences tinnitus of some kind. That is literally hundreds of millions of people around the world. If most of those didn't learn to move on and offed them selves or took absence from work due to illness or something similar, the world's economy would collapse. And since it hasn't the logical conclusion is that most people do in fact learn to move on.
       
    4. Jazzer

      Jazzer Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/1995
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      • Like Like x 3
      • Hug Hug x 1
    5. TheDanishGirl
      Sad

      TheDanishGirl Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2017 (H since 06/2017)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      long term noise exposure (headphones), maybe some stress.
      Just because somebody keeps going to work does not mean that they aren't suffering a great deal, though. Some really have no choice but to go to work... it's either that or starve to death.
       
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    6. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      HI @Telis

      I know you have a lot of difficultly with tinnitus, so please forgive me when I say after reading your post it made me smile and chuckle a few times. I don't mean to be facetious for I know your situation is a serious one. I am an advocate of TRT when it is administered correctly and a person has an open mind to the treatment. Please be assured I am not being paid by anyone for writing about it.

      Take care
      Michael
       
    7. Starthrower
      Wtf

      Starthrower Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      January 2002
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Dental Surgery
      Oh @Jazzer never feel you have to apologize. Leigh likes to or HAS to make public broadcasts about placing people on his ever growing ignore list. This is so juvenile. And it is done to make a person feel unworthy and less than a good person.

      I think like @TibuJenkins:
      And there is a scientific study thanks to @annV:
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    8. Jazzer

      Jazzer Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/1995
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      @Starthrower

      Something I need to admit Star.
      I am plagued with noise, as I know you are, though I usually cope somehow.
      But having said that, there are times when the enormity of the life I have lost really hits me hard.

      At the weekend I took my misus up country to see a concert by the TJ Johnson Jazz and Blues Band.
      Her favourite band, and one of the bands I was trombonist for, before I had to leave because of “T.”
      She was sitting in the front row, lapping up the music.
      I was in the back row with my ear plugs well in.

      In the interval she walked down the aisle to speak to me, leaned over, and with her delightful smile said to me,
      “Are you enjoying it babe?”
      I lay against her chest and sobbed.
      She said “Whatever is the matter baby?”

      “I miss it so much.”

      “I know sweetheart - I know.”

      This thing has hit her so hard also.

      I used to play Caribbean cruises in the jazz band on the QE 2, and my income for the month used to pay for both of our passages.
      Now we go house sitting for people when they go away.

      I know I have to be brave to form a different life, but there are times when I struggle.

      Sorry to lay this on you Star,

      much love

      Dave x
      Jazzer
       
      • Hug Hug x 6
    9. vermillion
      No Mood

      vermillion Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Neurological damage
      The resources that have been consumed to conduct this study, seem to be such a waste. They tried to prove the obvious. But then again thumbs up, because more of these studies eventually can help to sentence TRT to where it deserves. Death :)
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
    10. Silvio Sabo
      Pooptoast

      Silvio Sabo Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Gothenburg, Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2006
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise - I think
      I never said people don't suffer. Absence of suffering isn't the same thing as moving on. I suffer but I still try living my life.
       
      • Like Like x 2
    11. TheDanishGirl
      Sad

      TheDanishGirl Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2017 (H since 06/2017)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      long term noise exposure (headphones), maybe some stress.
      Oh I see. Thanks for clearing that up. I guess we apply different meaning to the phrase "moving on". For me it means that a person copes better and are generally uplifted and happier than before.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
    12. Starthrower
      Wtf

      Starthrower Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      January 2002
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Dental Surgery
      @Jazzer big hug because I am the same. I guess after so many years with this I just cope also. Friends begged me to go to a weekend concert country music...I said no. I knew the loudness and the sound of the large crowds would make me miserable. Oh well...look how fortunate we are to have spouses that understand even though we try to tough it out and can see their concern in the eyes.

      Sometimes I say to myself I had my days in the sun.

      I think of all the people your music brought smiles to.

      @Silvio Sabo you are like @jazzzer and myself having long term tinnitus. How long did it take you to get to this particular point? I cannot remember. I think it must have been around year four. Had a horrible incident in the second year that emotionally tore me down. So it took a while longer.
       
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    13. Silvio Sabo
      Pooptoast

      Silvio Sabo Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Gothenburg, Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2006
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise - I think
      For me it's been ups and downs. When I got it back in 2006 it took me about 2-3 years to habituate. After those first couple of years I rarely thought about tinnitus for years. Yes it was always present but it didn't bother me and I could just "send it" to the back of my mind and be happy. Then in January of 2015 I had a worsening. Tinnitus got considerably louder and I also got a couple of new tones. Since then it's been a struggle. I get bad spikes from time to time from sounds that shouldn't be harmful. The worst spike I had lasted for around 5 months.

      I also take anti depressants due to poor sleep and anxiety. The one I'm taking is Mirtazapine, which is a good anti depressant for people with tinnitus since tinnitus is not among it's common or uncommon side effects such as some SSRIs. Besides helping with anxiety it also puts me to sleep without building up a tolerance like sleep medications (that also can cause tinnitus!). The only problem is that it's hard to get off it and some people can gain weight from it.
       
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    14. Juan

      Juan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several causes
      You gotta be kidding!!! And you call that a "noise trauma"?

      I thought the standard definition of a noise trauma or noise damage was something like standing close to the speakers in a Metallica concert, or shooting guns without hearing protection, or being exposed to a pretty big explosion.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    15. Silvio Sabo
      Pooptoast

      Silvio Sabo Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Gothenburg, Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2006
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise - I think
      Listening to music using headphones can get you up over 100 dB, depending on headphones and HiFi equipment can definitely get you over 100 dB, which is more than enough to do serious damage.
       
    16. attheedgeofscience
      No Mood

      attheedgeofscience Member Mighty Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      Resolved since 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      See information page
      Well... my input: title is misleading (i.e. "Tinnitus Retraining Therapy Is Ineffective, Latest Study Finds"). The study didn't conclude that TRT is ineffective – it found that TRT proper is no more effective than the two other treatment arms. It never compared TRT to doing nothing (control group). It also appears there were problems with the study itself (dropout rates and clinicians not familiar with TRT). Having said that, I am no fan of TRT, but I do want to point out the discrepancy (since no one else did and the thread is already three pages long...).

      It is noteworthy, however, that not including sound therapy made no difference to the outcome of the therapy (as this part is considered instrumental to the TRT concept).
       
      • Informative Informative x 4
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    17. Juan

      Juan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several causes
      Using headphones is something that, today, with cellphones, iPods etc most people do. And the volume depends just on your setting, it its as easy as lowering it.

      Really, I have read for quite a few years about noise trauma and the usual onset is due to a one-off episode of very loud noise, well over 100 dB. That may be why some people recover from what they call "hyperacusis" and others never recover. It all depends on what caused it initially.

      Personally I think that listening to headphones cannot be compared to people who got hyperacusis standing close to huge speakers at full volume during the hours that a concert lasts, which is one of the main causes quoted, or people who went clubbing, or people who were using power tools without hearing protection, or shooting, or exposed to close airplane noise. Do you think you can really compare "headphones" to a fighter plane just taking off nearby?
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    18. Silvio Sabo
      Pooptoast

      Silvio Sabo Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Gothenburg, Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2006
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise - I think
      This is simply not true. Hearing usually deteriorates over time. Listening to headphones at higher volumes for hours over a longer period will have a profoundly negative effect on your hearing. This has nothing to do with what most people do or don't do. If most people jumped off of buildings it wouldn't make it less deadly. Most people who have tinnitus are older people (50+ years old), not young people. Which is due to a lifetime of smaller incidences that have accumulated and caused hearing loss and tinnitus. Which certainly does not say you can't get hearing loss and tinnitus from one single incident, which of course you absolutely can. But it's not the only way or even the most common one.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    19. Juan

      Juan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several causes
      I am talking primarily about hyperacusis, which is usually triggered by a one-off episode of incredibly loud noise. In this cathegory usually do not fall the small incidents that accumulate over time, but a single incident which is very loud. If you read through these fórums you will see that the classical examples that trigger H are concerts, being close to big speakers, clubbing, noise at work (explosions, loud power tools etc)

      So what I am saying is someone is advocating TRT no matter what evidence is against TRT as a possible "cure" for hyperacusis, and in the first place I seriously doubt that person has had hyperacusis at all, and even less hyperacusis caused by loud noise.
       
    20. Racehorse

      Racehorse Member

      Location:
      Staten Island, NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic
      If TRT doesn’t actually reduce the tinnitus volume, but helps people not think about it, then it’s just good ol' habituation happening. Maybe TRT is just a way to help some habituate. Me personally, if I had loud tinnitus, I know I would never habituate. Mine is very mild to moderate, and it bothers me immensely. I worry it will get worse some day, so I do what I can for it not to. Pray people!!
       
    21. Ken219
      Frustrated

      Ken219 Member

      Location:
      New York Area
      Tinnitus Since:
      Summer of 1990
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise exposure?
      It only shows people are greedy and there is a large community of junk science. But in the end we all want to believe.
      'P.T. Barnum
      “The public appears disposed to be amused even when they are conscious of being deceived.”
      "There's a sucker born every minute"
       
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    22. Silvio Sabo
      Pooptoast

      Silvio Sabo Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Gothenburg, Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2006
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise - I think
      I've never advocated TRT. I have made my stance on TRT vocal several times on this forum. I find it to be a complete waste of time and money.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    23. dayma
      Frustrated

      dayma Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1/6/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      UNKNOWN
      I don’t have much to add to this, but to say THANK YOU for these words!
       
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    24. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing and now somatic T dental work
      A Cochrane review of annV's posted study by ENTs is available, but one must pay for it. I can say that it's not worth reading. I know that Cochrane values clinical physical research and they don't often discuss mind over body theory.

      This leads me to being able to post with severe anything. I'm in severe pain and I still have the same emotions and no talk by anyone is going to chance that. I do honor the love that we give each other - for me a lot is shared to and from by PM or by email.
       
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    25. Juan

      Juan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several causes
      I was talking about another member, the one that defines noise trauma as "headphones" and advocates TRT no matter what, even if there is scientific evidence against it.

      Anyway, TRT is old enough for most people to know nowadays that it does not work.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    26. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      annV
      Fine

      annV Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown - possibly hereditary
      I will share now with you Craig Formby and Roberta W. Scherer's opinion / viewpoint article of the TRT study.
      I will also share the full paper for your convenience.
       

      Attached Files:

      • Like Like x 4
    27. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing and now somatic T dental work
      Type of sound heard, No.(%)
      Tonal 47(95.9) 47(92.2) 47(92.2) 141(93.4)
      Low-frequency noise 1(2.0) 2(3.9) 4(7.8) 7(4.6)
      High-frequency noise 0 1(2.0) 0 1(0.7)

      Tonal 92.2 for TRT
      High frequency noise has a very low representation - so I would call the actual patient study worthless.
      Even our good doctor per the doctor's corner does not often treat those with high frequency.
      Also multiple sounds, thumping, pulsatile tinnitus needs representation.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    28. Ken219
      Frustrated

      Ken219 Member

      Location:
      New York Area
      Tinnitus Since:
      Summer of 1990
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise exposure?
      Are they still pushing TRT? How much money do you think these people made?


      'Professor & Director
      Margaret M. Jastreboff, Ph.D.
      Associate Professor
      Tinnitus & Hyperacusis Center
      Department of Otolaryngology
      Emory University School of Medicine

      Over the years, many methods of tinnitus treatment have been introduced, but very few survived the test of time. Even now, in the year 2000, we do not have a mechanism-based method to provide a cure for tinnitus. More than a decade has passed since the introduction of the neurophysiological model of tinnitus and Tinnitus Retraining Therapy (TRT). Despite the controversies and criticism surrounding this approach, the number of patients helped is growing constantly, not only in the USA, but around the word. In fact, TRT is used successfully now in more than 20 countries.'
       
    29. Manny
      Dead

      Manny Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      United States
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      central gain << NIHL
      Yup, the Jastreboffs have won the Most Farcical Couple award every year for the past 200 years.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    30. Mister Muso
      Balanced

      Mister Muso Member

      Location:
      Scotland
      Tinnitus Since:
      2007 / April 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      At the risk of opening up this thread again, I would hardly call that sample set representative. I don't think there is any "one size fits all" solution. For me, white noise does less to help my tonal noises than my high frequency ones. For tonal noise I use neuromodulation sounds and residual inhibition such as HushTinnitus.com. For low frequency, notched brown noise or audio books. If wearing in ear noise generators I would go for those that can play whatever sounds I choose from the above selection.
       

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