Tinnitus Retraining Therapy

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by Jim, Mar 11, 2011.

    1. lymebite
      Vegged out

      lymebite Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      United States
      Tinnitus Since:
      2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      @Agrajag364

      For what it is worth (probably not very much), my guess is that your family friend and the other person online had reductions in their tinnitus volume that were going to happen anyway, and it was just coincidental that it happened during TRT. Just a personal guess as a patient though, nothing more.

      I offer this guess without any particular knowledge, beyond having read many papers on TRT and I personally did TRT under the supervision of Pawel Jastreboff. So I have some personal experience as a patient, including long discussions / counseling sessions with Dr. Jastreboff. To the best of my knowledge, I do not recall even anecdotal evidence that TRT can reduce tinnitus volume. It is more about partial masking and habituation.

      For me personally, TRT ended up doing the opposite - it INCREASED my tinnitus and hyperacusis. So if I could go back in time I wish I would have not done TRT. But TRT seems to help many people so it is difficult to know how to proceed.
       
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    2. dpdx
      Disappointed

      dpdx Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Murica
      Tinnitus Since:
      Onset:09/23/2017 Worsened: 1/17/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma, worsened by caloric test/VEMP test 90db nhL

      WE WANT A CURE!
       
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    3. threefirefour
      Rebellious

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      >"it's not what you think at all"
      > describes exactly what I think it is

      Don't worry you didn't spoil my hobby of being "sarky" on the internet.
       
    4. Agrajag364

      Agrajag364 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      So i describe something apparently that's helped me and others reduce the actual volume and to you this is bad and a waste of money. Where's the logic in that? Lol I don't think you even have tinnitus. It's the effects not process I said may not be so black and white as you think.
       
      Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
    5. Agrajag364

      Agrajag364 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      It's possible, but in the case of the older family friend, it was a dramatic and rapid reduction in volume soon after he started the maskers. Of course that's anecdotal but this is an Internet forum. It's appropriate to share anecdotal information. I used to work in scientific research and I still believe that. the quality of medical research is often so bad that often anecdotal information isn't useless

      Really sorry yours got louder, that was a big concern for me in trying this too. I started off using the maskers for a very short time and built it up. I still don't do it for more than a few hours a day. It is worth saying it may well be the hearing aid that has helped my case even though I have normal hearing. And that is after I take it off as well. But in my case any improvement has been much less marked than the other cases i found


      It is an outrage there are not better treatments for tinnitus. But pretty much any disorder of the brain is very badly understood right now. Pharma has thrown a whopping amount of money at Alzheimer's for example with no success. One day there will be treatments for tinnitus I am sure, but right now it's not alone in having barely any treatment

      i'm lucky enough to have multiple health problems with no good standard treatment.

      I'm beginning to see that others who had an actual reduction in volume might have left this forum pronto. Which is cheering.
       
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    6. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      Thank you for your kind words @Agrajag364

      I wrote a 13,000 word book/article Tinnitus A Personal View https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-a-personal-view.18668/ after quite a few people encouraged me to do so. It was a difficult process for I had never done anything like this before and my tinnitus gave me a lot of trouble whilst writing it. I have a very severe and unusual form of tinnitus according to my ENT consultant and Hearing Therapist, for they haven't met any patients with my type of tinnitus. It took me 4 years to habituate the 2nd time. It ranges from complete silence, mild, moderate, severe and can reach extreme severe levels, requiring me to take clonazepam to calm it down as nothing else will work.

      Therefore, under these conditions, I won't be attempting to write a longer book. Although, I will be starting a project soon, which involves writing about tinnitus and hope I will be able to complete it.

      I hope your tinnitus continues to improve.
      All the best
      Michael
       
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    7. threefirefour
      Rebellious

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      Really? I don't have tinnitus? Pray tell why do you think that?

      And I'm sorry, but I doubt his volume reduced as a result of TRT. Everything's I've seen written about TRT suggests that it has no effect on volume or in some cases makes it worse.
       
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    8. Contrast
      No Mood

      Contrast Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Clown World
      Tinnitus Since:
      late 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise injury
      TRT does NOT reduce the volume

      quit replying to this thread @threefirefour
      MPP is about to pass it in views and by replying you are retarding that process.

      a little over 2000 views (few days for MPP)
       
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    9. threefirefour
      Rebellious

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      Sorry sometimes I can tell help but take the bait.
       
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    10. Agrajag364

      Agrajag364 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Re volume reduction, I can't know for sure, but that certainly seem to be the experience of a few people I knew. It's not impossible it was coincidental but certainly if I am to believe my family friend he saw a very rapid marked improval. And possibly me, but in my case it's only been very modest since I began and it could be due to the hearing aid or coincidental. I agree that the possibility of getting worse with trt is a very serious concern and I think the risks of things like this happening are always understated by clinicians, and anyone trying it has to bear that in mind. I have to say this forum comes off more like daft tribal bickering than a discussion sometimes compared to forums for other health problems
       
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    11. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      I agree with you 100% there. Tinnitus brings out the worst in people and there isn’t much unity amongst the community as a whole. I used to be on a forum for a different condition and it was so far removed from how tinnitus forums are that the difference was night and day. There was unconditional unity and support for starters.

      Tinnitus Talk, however, besides the bickering, is a great place with some great people. Behind the scenes people work tirelessly, and selflessly, to help others, which to me is the hallmark of greatness.

      I suppose it is what it is.
       
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    12. Jazzer

      Jazzer Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/1995
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      When people have the background of a charitable nature, Tinnitus need not bring out the worst in them.
      Tinnitus has treated me pretty badly if you think about it, but I will always look for a positive way forward.
      To choose any other direction is quite simply to court disaster.
      Reinforce negative messages and you remove the possibility of healing.
      We need to accept the reality of ‘what is,’
      and determine to go forward.
      Encourage ourselves, as we encourage others.
      Just my view folks.
      xx
       
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    13. Jazzer

      Jazzer Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/1995
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      Tinnitus has been around since the dawn of time.
      To my knowledge, nobody has ever cured noise induced Tinnitus - which is by far the most common form.
      There is no effective treatment, much less a cure.
      “We Want A Cure!”
      But there isn’t one.
      We can sit there and fret and stew, but that makes absolutely no difference, other than making us feel so much worse.
      In my opinion we need to accept ‘what is,’ and try to calmly learn some better coping techniques.

      Does anybody have anything better to suggest...?
       
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    14. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      Jazzer is right. There isn’t a cure so we have to learn to accept it, and all the changes it makes to our lives. Otherwise, it will eat away at you and make you feel ten times worse, and you’ll never be happy again. It’s no different to how people have to learn to adapt to other conditions that have no cure, such as: ALS, MS, FOP, Parkinson’s, paralysis, loss of limbs, loss of sight, etc.

      I sound like a broken record here, but if we want to adavance our chances of seeing treatments, or even a cure, then we must do something about it. People who don’t have tinnitus will not be striving to change this; many don’t even know it exists. It is on us, the tinnitus community to do something about it. We need to start raising more money, either here, together - on a big scale - or independently many times over. The potential to raise significant amounts of money is high if we all apply ourselves. We can’t just sit talking on here, demanding a cure, without taking some form of action to help make it happen. That is akin to daydreaming; a complete waste of time.
       
      Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
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    15. RingerBell

      RingerBell Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      That is absolutely true.

      Some neurological conditions like Alzheimer and Parkinson's are creating significant costs to the economy as people live longer. And it's very likely that these conditions are getting more and more funding and research. Even though neurological disorders might not share common genetics (http://science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6395/eaap8757) all the neurological conditions get new methodologies from advances in research of the other neurological conditions (for example http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2018/NR/C7NR06794A ). And if TRT is still researched, it could benefit from example research done in brain plasticity research (for example http://science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6395/1349). I hope that breakthroughs and general knowledge in other related fields would make it more interesting for more researchers to get involved with tinnitus research.
       
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    16. Jazzer

      Jazzer Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/1995
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      Anatomically modern humans arose in Africa about 200,000 years ago, and reached behavioural modernity about 50,000 years ago.

      Does anybody on this forum, regardless of funding possibilities, reckon a cure could come anytime soon?

      Come on you lot - cheer me up somebody...??
       
    17. GregCA
      Jaded

      GregCA Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Otosclerosis
      Yes of course, for some definition of "soon"...
       
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    18. Contrast
      No Mood

      Contrast Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Clown World
      Tinnitus Since:
      late 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise injury
      TRT is holding back actual research on how to actually reduce the volume of tinnitus
       
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    19. glynis
      Feminine

      glynis Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England, Stoke-on-Trent
      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Meniere's Disease
      I Think TRT is a choice of options that people could try but I wish free for everyone but at no cost to money needed for resurch.
      We are all different and find ways that help us cope and TRT is just a choice that some people might want to try.
      I know @Michael Leigh had great help with TRT and im sure many more people have had good results and some not.
      Let's hope we do find a cure for some people but until then the more choices for help as got to be a good thing and TRT included if can get it fee or afford it.
      love glynis
       
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    20. Jazzer

      Jazzer Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/1995
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      ......I’’m quite hopeful that a cure could possibly come within the next 50,000 years.....perhaps that’s being a tad optimistic......until which time sufferers can practice various therapeutic approaches.....xx
       
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    21. RingerBell

      RingerBell Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      Maybe NASA and ESA would come up with a switch which would make us see the future, instead of those Hubble XDF images from 13 billion years away in the past.:snaphappy:

      That's a bit black and white way to see things. Yes, research beyond habituation should be of course done. However young scientist and medical doctors don't really graduate as tinnitus superstars. They have to specialize in tinnitus research and do some basic research before they can do the heavy lifting. TRT and habituation is probably the most documented area in tinnitus related treatments, and some research, for thesis example, could probably be done even if the instructor isn't specialized on tinnitus. It's a safe starting point for a young scientist interested in tinnitus research, who could then be later on recruited by some research group working on treatments beyond TRT and habituation. Lets say a doctor specializes and becomes an ENT. Which would be more beneficial for the tinnitus community (if later on she decides to become a researcher): a) She specializes in tinnitus with some research on habituation process b) She specializes in throat related stuff?
       
    22. Contrast
      No Mood

      Contrast Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Clown World
      Tinnitus Since:
      late 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise injury

      TRT isn't going to get us anywhere.

      I want to see real science like vagus nerve stimulation and signal timing, cochlear hair cell regeneration to restore hearing, epilepsy medicines that target areas of the brain causing tinnitus.

      Ways to reduce the actual volume of tinnitus!

      Not another method on seperating the emotional brain for the audiotory brain like Jastreboff's TRT and the Levo system.
       
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    23. Tinniger

      Tinniger Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      increasingly uncertain, maybe noise, maybe somatic ?
      I like the comparison between tinnitus and headaches. Where is headache retraining therapy mentioned??
       
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    24. Jazzer

      Jazzer Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/1995
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      The therapeutic aspect, and the research aspect are not mutually exclusive.
      So far, various therapies have eased the pain for several thousands.
      Research has currently not even helped one single soul.

      Not One.

      A little bit of perspective wouldn’t go amiss.
       
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    25. EarHair

      EarHair Member

      Location:
      Vancouver, Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2012 worsened Jan 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Concerts and TMJ and genetics (Mom, Grandpa have it)
      I'll beat you over the head until your headache disappears. It's foolproof!
       
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    26. glynis
      Feminine

      glynis Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England, Stoke-on-Trent
      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Meniere's Disease
      @Contrast,
      TRT is just another choice in helping people deal with tinnitus until a cure comes along and won't stop resurch.
      Everyone is different so any choice that could help people deal with tinnitus has to be a good thing.

      I am still sceptical if it helps and unless by hearing from people whom have had it will leave us guessing.
      I totally gree that habituation is not a cure and more research is needed now and much needed funds.
      love glynis
       
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    27. Silvio Sabo
      Pooptoast

      Silvio Sabo Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Gothenburg, Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2006
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise - I think
      This kind of reasoning is really naive. Yes, mankind has been around for thousands of years but your logic is built on the premise that technological advancement increases linearly. But that is completely false! Technological advancement increases exponentially with time.

      Just as an example: We have done more in the last 50-100 years than all the species that have ever lived in the history of the planet Earth combined, including humans. It took mankind thousands of years to reach the advancement to build any kind of engine. That was just a couple of hundred years ago. And now we build spaceships that can take men to the moon and probes that can travel beyond our solar system. If the advancement were to go the way you seem to propose we wouldn't have built a spaceship for another million years or so.

      Yes, people have studied anatomy for tens of thousands of years but we didn't manage to pull of an organ transplant until very recently. That is just one example of things we have done. I'll give you another more recent one: A friend of mine has two daughters that were both born prematurely. Today 95% of all children born in the same week as his first daughter survive. 15 years ago that figure was only 10%. That is what we have done only recently!

      A cure is coming!
       
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    28. Jazzer

      Jazzer Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/1995
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      Of course I was being a tad cynical, and intentionally naive.
      However, I wanted some cheer, and you provided some old sport. (English expression.)
      However - we will still have to wait and see.....??
       
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    29. Quiet please
      Balanced

      Quiet please Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Westchester County, NY
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Only a guess, but probably hearing loss.
      I realize TRT has been discussed here, but can someone please explain something to me? I’m considering the therapy, but really don’t get the science behind it. Also, I’ve noticed that people on here either hate or love it.

      When you use maskers, does the brain start to “learn” to distinguish the T from the masker sounds? Does TRT urge the brain to eventually ignore the Tinnitus? Or it is just a temporary fix and doesn’t really do anything in the long term? Do you have to do the masking forever? Thank you.
       
    30. glynis
      Feminine

      glynis Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England, Stoke-on-Trent
      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Meniere's Disease
      TRT uses white noise generators and counselling together.
      White noise generators are set below your tinnitus and this helps your brain not to focus on your tinnitus and push hard to pick up the white noise.

      love glynis
       
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