Tinnitus, TMJ, Headaches, Neck Pain, Facial Pain, etc. — Possible Treatment

Discussion in 'Alternative Treatments and Research' started by erik, Jul 23, 2012.

    1. applewine
      Curious

      applewine Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
      I've had a lot of dry needling over the years. I've felt a lot of switching from it and also a lot of dull aches. In the upper back muscles like trapezius I remember feeling like the needle was high up on my neck, but it wasn't. From what I can tell the needling hasn't fixed anything. Most of my needling was from Bethesda Physiocare, which is supposed to be the best in the USA.

      This guy went to the same place and it worked for him, although I didn't go through everything he did.

      From Pain to Pain Free
       
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    2. Mr. Cartman
      Artistic

      Mr. Cartman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      @applewine
      @Nick the Swede

      I was going to inject my lateral pterygoideus today, but I did the sternocleidomastoid muscle instead.. Both sides..
      I knew that this is an important muscle, and I think I injected a little too much.. My face and throat got numb as well and I immediately got very dizzy.. A little like room spinning dizzy + optical hallucinations like objects are growing while looking at them, and moving.. Been puking a lot too.. And I have a very hard time walking without falling over, and I have some serious muscle spasms down my arms..

      Im not going to have this muscle injected once more to say it at least.. I literally feel aweful.. Hopefully this stuff wears off in a few days.. heh

      Ill probably go for the dreaded lateral pterygoideus next time, if Im still alive (not kidding) :p
       
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    3. Kaelon
      Wishful

      Kaelon Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Boston, Mass.
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Muscle Spasms
      This is fascinating, @Sjtof. Please keep us informed on how you are feeling with this treatment. I've been diagnosed with TMJ, though I'm not sure if that diagnosis is really going to end up sticking as the primary cause of my bilateral and pulsatile T. Definitely curious to hear how you are doing.
       
    4. applewine
      Curious

      applewine Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
      @Kaelon When you say "pulsatile" do you mean the sound is of or with your pulminary pulse or do you mean that the tinnitus is beeping as opposed to continuous.
       
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    5. Kaelon
      Wishful

      Kaelon Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Boston, Mass.
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Muscle Spasms
      @applewine - In my case, I have a constant, continuous tone (~7500 hertz, actually). However, the volume increases ever so slightly at a pace in synch with my heartbeat. I've been told that this is likely muscular or neuromuscular (kind of like how muscles ache and throb in tune with your heart rhythm when they are sprained). However, it could also be neurovascular meaning that one of my auditory nerves are being impacted by a blood vessel. My ENT was pretty adamant that I have TMJ, even though my dentist isn't too sure it's anything more than just "mildly inflamed." But, I'm starting to see a lot in connection with headaches, neck/back pain, and my T -- especially how I can cause it to increase in volume and, sometimes, pitch just by straining my head/neck muscles, jaw muscles, etc.

      Does that sound familiar with your Trigger Points issues?
       
    6. Codaz

      Codaz Member

      @Sjtof

      Interesting, is this done at a physiotherapist office?
       
    7. Mr. Cartman
      Artistic

      Mr. Cartman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      @applewine
      @just1morething

      Update:

      Im more or less back to normal after injections of the sternocleidomastoideus.. Thank God :)

      This is what happened right after the injections:

      Severe dizziness and nausea.
      Vomiting.
      A lot of stinging in my legs (something that could remind of restless leg syndrome).
      Muscle spasms in my arms.
      Some minor optical hallucinations.

      Not sure if this is all related to the SCM alone, because my entire throat and some parts of my face were numb, so I guess a lot of nerves were affected. Theres still some numbness going on though :)
       
    8. Codaz

      Codaz Member

      Sounds horrible.

      I discussed the botox option with my Dentist. She said go do it. But no, I won't. Far too few evidence that it works. And @Nick the Swede did it, but his T was not reduced if I'm correct.
       
    9. applewine
      Curious

      applewine Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
      @Mr. Cartman

      Well I'm glad that is mostly over. That was a very big reaction. What were the visual hallucinations like? This could be expected. The dizziness and nausea would make sense from the SCM muscles. I'm not sure about the stinging in the legs, that would not be expected. What was that like?
       
    10. applewine
      Curious

      applewine Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
      This website on Wikipedia talks about the laterial pterygoid being used to protrude the jaw forward:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_pterygoid_muscle

      "The primary function of the lateral pterygoid muscle is to pull the head of the condyle out of the mandibular fossa along the articular eminence to protrude the mandible"

      This is what I could not do a couple years ago and I would feel a tightness and restriction on the right side. Eventually through practice this restriction went away. However the Tinnitus remained on the right side.

      Many sources say tinnitus is caused by a hyperactive lateral pterygoid muscle. Perhaps the pain is being fed into that muscle still so my nerves are still hearing the pain even though the muscle is no longer as tight. Perhaps I would have to either treat the muscle more somehow or find what is feeding pain into that muscle. The tinnitus did not even lessen from the stretching of the lateral pterygoid so I could now protrude my jaw forward easily. The restriction was also only on the right side which is the side which hurts more or more often and the side with the T I can easily hear during the daytime.
       
    11. Mr. Cartman
      Artistic

      Mr. Cartman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      @applewine

      Hi :)

      Yes, strong reaction indeed.. I did not expect all this stuff to happen.. The stinging felt more like pins and needles..
      The visual hallucinations were kind of creepy.. When looking at objects they kind of grew in size and their shape was not steady..

      What you say about the lateral pterygoideus is very interesting.. Especially if you had problems protruding your jaw at the time tinnitus started.. Im trying to wrap my head around this muscle. I would expect this muscle to be slightly safer to inject than the SCM muscle though, because the SCM has a lot of nerves in close proximity..

      Theres the lateral pterygoideus, but you also have tensor veli palatini which I find slightly interesting..

      I have found a ton of literature linking the lateral pterygoideus to some types of tinnitus though, but nothing that describes how it happens. It could be compression of the auriculotemporal nerve where it passes through the inferior belly of it..
       
    12. Codaz

      Codaz Member

      Seems that *somehow* some of my neck muscles loosened, I cannot make my T 200% harder anymore when flexing and contracting my neck to either side. After yesterday somehow another decrease in volume?
       
    13. applewine
      Curious

      applewine Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
      @Mr. Cartman if I remember correctly I think the reason the lateral Pterygoid causes tinnitus has to do with the trigeminal nerve. I can't remember, but I think it has to do with how we evolved and for some reason the trigeminal nerve feeds into the auditory center of the brain. It is not because the muscle is effecting the auditory nerve. Thus pain along the trigeminal nerve will be interpreted as noise, it is nerve line nouse.
       
    14. Sound Wave
      Curious

      Sound Wave Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Finland
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably headphones
      I went to play badminton after maaaaaaany years two days ago. Oh man my body aches now, especially the legs but many other parts as well. :) The intense game also strained my neck muscles and they are now sore - and T is loud. I also heard the T spiking during the game in some movements. It was still fun! :)
       
    15. applewine
      Curious

      applewine Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
      @Sound Wave @Mr. Cartman My neck has been bother me a little extra the last few days. Sometimes from sleeping position and sometimes I feel it when leaning forward and putting my hand below my jaw to prop it up for a moment. I feel extra pain the lateral pterygoid area of my jaw. In general though I do not feel extreme pain or high pain in my jaw or face like I did way back in 2008. It was very wide spride to medial pterygoid and all over back then when I had the dizziness, nausea, balance problems etc.
       
    16. Sjtof
      Digging it

      Sjtof Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2014
      Well I think I was a bit too optimistic about the dry needling. Although that day felt pretty good, the last few days r terrible and i feel like I'm back again where I wa when it all started. I barely sleep, feel miserable and the T is goddammit loud.

      But next to this I just can't explain why laying down in certain positions increases the T or let it do these fluctuations or gives me stinging pain in the ears.

      Anyways I feel like the T is winning again so maybe I just gotta stop reading about it again like I did before.
      Wish u all a merry Christmas though.
       
    17. applewine
      Curious

      applewine Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
      @Sjtof I'm had stinging pain in the ears like quick sharp stabbing pain. Mostly in 2008. You can find trigger point pain referral charts or text that talk about which refer pain to the ears. I occasionally feel some momentary pain in my ears, but it is never the extreme stabbing sharp pain I felt in 2008 or as often. That felt like electric shocks and was extremely painful and scary.
       
    18. Sjtof
      Digging it

      Sjtof Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2014
      @applewine

      Ye i get what u mean. Currently laying in bed and it sounds like there is some sort of electricity going in my head, it's so Fkn loud and my ears hurt like shit. Next to this I hear a buzzing sound, which is kinda new to me, but i'm not sure if it's the sound of our heat pump system. The stupid thing is, it wasn't that loud when i went to bed, but then I was struggling to find a decent position to lay in and the more I struggled the more I started to push and pull on muscles and stretch my neck. Maybe that wasn't a good idea. Gotta go to Amsterdam in 2 hours with my gf. Gonna be fun....
       
    19. Mr. Cartman
      Artistic

      Mr. Cartman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      @applewine

      Yeah, it could very well be related to the trigeminal nerve.. And it seems like we both have had / have some kind of issues in the medial / lateral pterygoid area, and it seems to be a common factor among quite a few of us..
      The stinging pain as you and @Sjtof describe , I have that too, but not so much anymore.. It felt like someone poking needles in my ears for a brief second every once in a while. I think its related to the eardrum or the nerves that innervates it..

      "The innervation of the posterior half of the ear drum is by the auricular branch of the X nerve and the anterior half is by the auriculotemporal branch of the Vth nerve. The inner surface of the ear drum is supplied by the tympanic branch of the IXth nerve."

      X = Vagus nerve
      IX = Glossopharyngeal nerve
      V = Trigeminal nerve

      We should also not forget that the auriculotemporal nerve passes through the inferior belly of the lateral pterygoideus in some individuals, which I think could explain why the lateral pterygoideus could cause tinnitus in some people and why it could cause tinnitus and earpain in other individuals.

      As for jaw issues, it seems like all of the three nerves above could be affected. The mandibular branch of the vagus nerve close to the joint, the auriculotemporal nerve in the lateral pterygoideus and the vagus and glossopharyngeal nerve close to the stylohyoid muscle and ligament (at the top of the throat each side).
       
    20. Mr. Cartman
      Artistic

      Mr. Cartman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Thats interesting, because I had to stop sleeping with my jaw resting on my hand because it started to hurt bad.. Like it was aggravating the pain.. When doing jaw exercises my neck starts to sting as well..
       
    21. downtongirl

      downtongirl Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      5/2013
      Hey Luke...I am new here but I want to chime in because I think my tmj either contributes to or is the cause of my tinnitus. I began tmj treatment in August. I wear a mouth splint that was custom made for me by a neuromuscular dentist 24/7...even when eating. I don't know that I can say that the guard has helped my T but what does seem to help is the physical intraoral therapy where my therapist goes inside of my mouth wearing a rubber glove and works on my jaw muscles. She uses a cold laser wand on the outside of my jaw muscles and for a bout 1 - 2 hours afterwards I really don't notice my tinnitus even when trying to hear it. Also, I have begun getting medical massages on my neck and jaws and that seems to help for a few hours and even the next day. I took prednisone for 10 days in early September and my T pretty much went away until one day after the RX was finished. I do believe that inflammation is a big contributor of my tinnitus because I notice when I wake up in the middle of the night or first thing in the morning my T is louder and I think this is because I am sleeping on my side putting pressure on my jaws. My T also seems to be louder sometimes after I eat and I think that is because of using the jaw muscles. After the first of the year I am hoping to get an MRI because I think I have some arthritis in my tmj joints and am wondering if a procedure like arthrocentesis or arthroscope will be ale to any inflammation or scar tissue that I have. I do have pulling sensations in my jaw muscles leading up to my ears.
       
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    22. just1morething
      Benevolent

      just1morething Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      ?
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ?
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    23. Mr. Cartman
      Artistic

      Mr. Cartman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Thanks for sharing! :)

      "Hissing related to tight neck and shoulder muscles can be due to a pattern that formed in those muscles because they were consistently held in a certain way (such as holding a phone beneath chin). For me, the chain of muscles in my neck and shoulder shortened and twisted, which constricted the nerves in the muscles and they were what was ringing in my head. While a chiropractor can help with this problem, I did not get complete relief until I did stretching exercises to remove the pattern that had formed in the muscle between my shoulder and neck. I found out this solution from a neurologist (constricted nerves can ring). No one else I consulted (ear doctor, chiropractor, physical therapist) knew about muscle patterns. One day while I was doing my shoulder exercises, I heard a pop (the muscle pattern released) and then the hissing stopped. This took about six months of exercising. Physical therapists can instruct re the best exercises."
       
    24. Mr. Cartman
      Artistic

      Mr. Cartman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      @just1morething

      After reading a little more.. Wow, what a great find dude! :)
       
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    25. just1morething
      Benevolent

      just1morething Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      ?
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ?
      Jun 29, 2014
      Neck and Shoulder Muscles NEW
      by: Patricia

      I am the person who wrote about tight neck and shoulder muscles causing tinnitus.

      Note that "tinnitus" simply means "ringing". It does not necessarily refer to an ear issue. For me, tight neck and shoulder muscles were causing the ringing, and exercise made it vanish.

      Exercises that worked for me:

      1) Set palm against the side of head and push head against it gently to create resistance. Feel the muscle on the side of throat tense, thus it is being exercised. Do this on the other side of head as well.

      2) Set both palms against forehead and push head against them gently to create resistance. This also exercises neck muscles in the throat area.

      3) Set both palms against the back of head and push head gently against them to create resistance. This exercises the muscles in the back of neck.

      4) For shoulder muscle exercises, use a dumbbell that is comfortable to lift but also provides some resistance and lift it as if lifting a bucket. Do this as many times as is comfortable.

      5) Tilt head back as far as it will go and then open mouth as wide as possible, hold for several seconds, then close mouth into a pucker. This works the muscles beneath the ears as well as the throat.

      Repeat these exercises as many times and as often as able to do comfortably. It will take a while, but eventually the ringing should ease as the muscles stretch. Don't give up too early as it does take a while. Note how the muscles in the throat area are directly beneath the ear. Any tightness in these muscles can cause tinnitus. The shoulder exercises are necessary in conjunction with the neck exercises because the shoulder and neck muscles are part of the same chain of muscles and work together.

      Good luck. I hope everyone who reads this is helped by these exercises as much as I was.
       
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    26. Mr. Cartman
      Artistic

      Mr. Cartman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Seems like Patricia has got it!

      Id like to add occipitalis, tensor tympani, tensor veli palatini and the jaw muscles to that "chain" as well.. :)
       
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    27. just1morething
      Benevolent

      just1morething Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      ?
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ?
      Yeah, she has well laid out simple exercises to stretch your various muscles that could be causing your noise. You only need a set of dumbbells.:)
       
    28. applewine
      Curious

      applewine Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
      @Sjtof Ok, but I was not talking about electricity sounds. I was saying it would be sudden strong electric shock pain in the ear, like a very sharp stabbing pain. That was very scary. It would happen pretty randomly.

      As far as sounds I have multiple in both ears I think. My right ear is the loudest, so I can hear during normal sound environments, except outside normally and when other sounds are playing louds enough.
       
    29. applewine
      Curious

      applewine Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
      I recently purchased two more tools:
      1. The Body Back Buddy
      2. Nola Rola
       
    30. Sjtof
      Digging it

      Sjtof Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2014
      Ey I really liked that post @just1morething, because that i kind off how I experience it. And these shocks I get through my head feel like they r the result of some stuck nerves our whatever. Thanks man, really gave me a boost. I think I'm gonna adres these things discussed here to my physiologist from now on, because maybe it helps them in track or something.
       
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