Can Someone Explain to Me Why Neil Bauman Is So Influential?

Discussion in 'Support' started by Gl0w0ut, Jun 18, 2019.

    1. Gl0w0ut
      Inactive

      Gl0w0ut Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I'm not even sure "influential" is the right word for him, but he seems to have quite the presence online. A quick Google search of the terms "tinnitus" (especially "ototoxic") and a page authored by him or the Center for Hearing Loss will show up.

      Worst of all, he authored a pamphlet on ototoxic medications for the ATA. So who is this man and why is he so qualified? Well, he's written several books on lists of supposedly ototoxic medications and how to cope with hearing loss. His qualifications? He has a master's degree in Theology and two PhD degrees, one in forestry and the other in ancient astronomy.

      If you're scratching your head and wondering why such a man has an influential voice with the ATA, then you're not alone. His biography claims he has extensive training in "hearing loss coping skills", which is NOT that same as having training in neurology, audiology, or ENT. Seriously, if his works stress you out, note them but take then with a bathtub of salt. He doesn't seem to have any real education, training, or research in tinnitus relevant areas. As such, any evidence he may cite is possible interpreted incorrectly.

      Please, let's drop this guy and his wacky ideas. Anyone who isn't trained in this area and wants to sell you his books is a snake oil salesman.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Winner Winner x 1
    2. annV
      Fine

      annV Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown - possibly hereditary
      In my opinion, Neil Baumann is a scammer. I fell for his sales pitch in my earlier days. In his books, he lists almost all medications as being ototoxic. He has no medical or scientific qualifications.

      Why has the ATA worked with him?? I don't know. Maybe ATA hasn't checked his background thoroughly enough.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
      • Hug Hug x 2
    3. Mishal Almutairi
      Approved

      Mishal Almutairi Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2017 December
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Wisdom removal with high dose Antibiotics
      He is full of it and is not a real doctor. That is as far as you need to look into him. He is a good marketer using fear to sell books and it’s wrong.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    4. nicole76
      Depressed

      nicole76 Member

      Location:
      Chicago, IL
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/17 / Worsened 04/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      One-Sided Hearing Loss (of unknown origin)
      The fear is real for me - I am terrified of taking any drugs now that he and the ATA have that awful list of ototoxic drugs and it's making my life hell because I can't sleep and barely eat and have lost way too much weight. How do we know the REAL list of drugs to stay away from?
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
    5. Selah1281

      Selah1281 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Bustown, OH10
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      This is the list I was using as my main go to. It’s very concerning if it’s inaccurate and a fear mongering tool.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    6. Contrast
      No Mood

      Contrast Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Clown World
      Tinnitus Since:
      late 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise injury
      The average human being is very naive, that being it makes sense most people with tinnitus will also be naive.

      Characters like him thrive off the stupidity of us as a collective. The ATA appointed him because they are a small organization not anything serious.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
    7. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      temporarily banished from this plane of existence.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      he's good at search engine optimization
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Funny Funny x 1
    8. just1morething
      Benevolent

      just1morething Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      It started
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Bad luck
      I think he is mainly interested in profits from his e-book sales. I would take what he says with a grain of salt.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    9. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Gl0w0ut
      Inactive

      Gl0w0ut Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      The thing is, many drugs CAN be ototoxic, over 700 are documented that way. But ototoxicity is an adverse side effect like all other side effects. You don’t avoid medications despite the potential for other adverse side effects do you?

      Though I am not a physician. I advise you talk to your doctor about ototoxicity.
       
    10. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Gl0w0ut
      Inactive

      Gl0w0ut Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Here, this might be more helpful. Chemotherapy drugs and NSAIDs are the only consistent ototoxic drugs.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ototoxicity
       
    11. Contrast
      No Mood

      Contrast Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Clown World
      Tinnitus Since:
      late 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise injury
      The ecommerce goons over at Sparkhealthmedia/Zenith Labs actually take that title. Google anyone of SHM's and Zenith Labs products and you'll find tons of propaganda paid affiliate reviews.
       
    12. PeteJ
      Depressed

      PeteJ Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma?
      How many doctors accurately know about potential ototoxicity of medications?
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    13. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      temporarily banished from this plane of existence.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      a lot are pretty woke on the subject, at least compared to Neil Bauman and random anxiety cases from the internet
       
    14. CountryMile
      Transparent

      CountryMile Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Southern US
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/08/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Medications and an acoustic shock
      Wow, am I glad I found this thread. I am 1 month into my whirlwind frenzy of trying to get INFORMED and hopefully CURED of this hellish condition and , yes, I actually have that list printed out and sitting on my table for reference. And yes, I called my gp about the meds he has me on and probably have just pissed him off with misinformation. What a frikkin' stupid complication of an already maddening situation.
       
    15. Lane

      Lane Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic Drug
      From my perspective, in most cases, yes. There's almost always alternatives to the drugs that are often prescribed by physicians.

      @Gl0w0ut -- How did you come to that conclusion? I perused the site for about 15 seconds, and discovered many more drugs and classifications of ototoxic drugs than what you mention. You mentioned earlier about checking with "your doctor". Most of them know pretty close to nil about what's ototoxic and what isn't, and how concerning it should be. They usually don't even warn patients that what they're prescribing could totally upend the rest of their lives.

      For anybody considering taking any kind of medication, I suggest doing your own due diligence. Nobody cares about your ears and your sanity more than you do. Oh, and to those who think Wikipedia is the "final word" on just about anything, think again. Its content is filld with major political and financial motives, the twin curses that are all too pervasive in our modern culture. Though I only perused the site for a few seconds, I noticed they never mentioned SSRIs, anti-psychotic drugs, or anticholinergic drugs. Good grief! :rolleyes:
       
      Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
      • Like Like x 2
    16. CountryMile
      Transparent

      CountryMile Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Southern US
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/08/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Medications and an acoustic shock
      Ok...I've calmed down a bit...I can see that I'm way out of my league in all this. Hell, up until last year I was just a country bumpkin going through my lil ole simple life just working hard and never even having to go to a doctor for anything. Then soon as I hit 58 years of age BANG! the proverbial shit hits the fan and all of a sudden I am almost LIVING in the doctor's waiting room. So of course I am completely ignorant about meds and all the myriad complications involved. Sheesh...I'm way over my head. Most of you seem well informed and very rational in this realm. I feel like I could get lost and or misdirected easily. This is certainly going to be one hell of a ride...
       
      • Like Like x 3
    17. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Why is Kim Kardashian so influential?
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
      • Funny Funny x 1
    18. jay777

      jay777 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      benzo/ headphones
      Is it because she eats spaghettios.
       
      • Funny Funny x 1
    19. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Gl0w0ut
      Inactive

      Gl0w0ut Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Not all medications have non-medication alternatives to them. Many do, but not all.

      As far as Wikipedia, it is more accurate than people give it credit for. And you don’t think Neil Bauman certainly has conflicts of interest in pushing his books. Is he worth listening to?
       
    20. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Gl0w0ut
      Inactive

      Gl0w0ut Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      It is a less common area not typically considered, but so what? Are you going to avoid every medication out of fear it will cause hearing loss.
       
    21. Contrast
      No Mood

      Contrast Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Clown World
      Tinnitus Since:
      late 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise injury
      I'm a paranoid loon that deeply fears losing more hearing and I think Bauman's full of ****
       
      • Like Like x 1
    22. Tinniger

      Tinniger Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      increasingly uncertain, maybe noise, maybe somatic ?
      I would say that his book on ototoxicity is a hard piece of work that is quite commendable.

      It is rather the question of whether ototoxicity is a relevant aspect for a significant number of tinnitus sufferers. :dunno:
       
    23. Lane

      Lane Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic Drug
      @Gl0w0ut -- I've been to his site a few times, and for the most part have found it to be helpful. Some on this thread have said he's not a doctor, or ENT--or something like that--so he shouldn't be trusted. I don't know what his degree(s) are in, but I would like to remind people that many on this board have gone to supposedly very well qualified doctors and ENTs, and end up far worse off for their efforts.

      It appears to me that many of these doctors simply do not have good critical thinking skills. So far, it has seemed to me that Neil Bauman does. So until I start seeing him say things that don't make sense to me, I'll continue to see at least see what he has to say. I do like it that he's very concerned about ototoxic drugs, which many doctors simply aren't--which is pretty unbelievable to me.

      In case anybody's interested I made a post on Neil's website on the topic of St. John's Wort. I liked his replies on THAT THREAD, and his reply to me.
       
    24. CountryMile
      Transparent

      CountryMile Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Southern US
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/08/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Medications and an acoustic shock
      As I said in my earlier post, I am concerned about acting on bad information and seeing some of the back and forth about Bauman had me distrusting the info I had taken from him. But what you say makes sense and seems to be a rational approach. So maybe I'll just take a breath, chill a little, and see.
       
      • Like Like x 2
    25. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Gl0w0ut
      Inactive

      Gl0w0ut Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Did you read my post? I tell you what his degrees are in. He is far less qualified than an ENT is. If an ENT can’t fully help, then how can a guy with no training in audiology, neurology, or otolaryngology?

      And as someone who has looked over tinnitus literature, there is little evidence supporting therapeutic use of supplements like St. John’s Wort.
       
    26. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Gl0w0ut
      Inactive

      Gl0w0ut Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I can’t trust the work of someone with no formal training in a modern medical or scientific discipline.
       
    27. Tinniger

      Tinniger Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      increasingly uncertain, maybe noise, maybe somatic ?
      I fear that you far overestimate the skills and knowledge of people with formal training in a modern medical or scientific discipline.
      Baumann's book on ototoxicity is a standard work.
      Yes, there are not many drugs for which ototoxicity is reproducibly proven. But there are just a multitude of individual case observations of patients from different studies, and their number just varies depending on the drug. There is only empirical evidence and no scientific proof.

      Moreover, it is by no means clear to what extent ototoxicity is relevant for the occurrence of tinnitus at all.
      In particular, tinnitus without hearing loss makes otoxicity unlikely.
       
      Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
      • Like Like x 1
    28. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Gl0w0ut
      Inactive

      Gl0w0ut Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Given what I’ve read about his book as well as his blog posts, I am not convinced Bauman knows what he is talking about.

      I mean, after all, someone who has studied theology and forestry is clearly an expert on the inner ear, the auditory system, and drug pharmacology. I’m not sure how you possibly think someone who has no relavent education or training on the subject would know more than a physician or scientist who had spent years doing applied learning and research.

      I have seen little evidence most of the drugs he lists as being ototoxic. It is understudied, but that makes it even harder to make his level of claims. Why is the ATA allowing someone with no education or certifications to give clinical advice?
       
    29. nicole76
      Depressed

      nicole76 Member

      Location:
      Chicago, IL
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/17 / Worsened 04/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      One-Sided Hearing Loss (of unknown origin)
      Except he contradicted himself in that thread, first saying there were no reports of tinnitus from St. John's Wort and then saying some people have experienced it.

      Honestly, I'm really tired of all the misinformation out there. I hate having this condition and having to worry about anything and everything making it even more unbearable. I'm seeing a therapist but so far it isn't helping me. I feel like I will never find true relaxation or happiness until this ringing is gone. Seeing as though it just hit it's two year anniversary, I don't feel too hopeful it's going anywhere until some cure is found. The sad part is for the first year and a half it didn't distress me at all. Now suddenly it's all I ever notice.
       
      • Hug Hug x 1

Share This Page

Loading...