Ketamine Relieves Depression By Restoring Brain Connections

Discussion in 'Research News' started by Nic B, Oct 5, 2012.

    1. kingsfan
      Mellow

      kingsfan Member

      Location:
      Southern California
      Tinnitus Since:
      Sep 17 '20 / Oct 20 '20 / Mar 31 '21
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      turning everything up to 11
      Since Ketamine is an NMDA antagonist, is there a possibility it could provide some level of protection against acoustic trauma or ototoxicity?
       
    2. GBB

      GBB Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Virus / Microsuction / Acoustic Trauma
      That is exactly what it should do, theoretically. However when I tried Memantine, another NMDA antagonist, it did the opposite. This effect stopped 1 day after discontinuing.
       
    3. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Both "crickets" and the high pitched (12000 Hz?) pure tone appeared after my Macrolide antibiotic ototoxicity. So, at onset.
       
    4. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Started with a cold, possibly worsened by medication/noise
      It's so crazy that medications that are supposed to help make things worse.

      There is this anecdote on Memantine and tinnitus, it didn't end well.

      Screenshot 2021-04-07 at 16.00.52.png
       
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    5. kingsfan
      Mellow

      kingsfan Member

      Location:
      Southern California
      Tinnitus Since:
      Sep 17 '20 / Oct 20 '20 / Mar 31 '21
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      turning everything up to 11
      Did you try Memantine specifically for tinnitus or was it for something unrelated? I wonder how similar these two drugs are... meaning, I wonder if one causes adverse reactions to tinnitus, then the other will also.
       
    6. Matchbox

      Matchbox Member

      Location:
      BC Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      August 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Induced, Prednisone (drones), Barotrauma (distortions)
      I tried a very small amount of Ketamine. I can't tell if it did much. The long half life, and the side effects from DXM when I tried that, scared me away.

      Tinnitus tones disappeared but bells and the wavering one were out of this world.

      Ketamine is not a benign drug and its half life is way too long for a "trial".
       
    7. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I have a very quiet and non bothersome wavering one ever since I got ear pain (which I believe is TTTS related). It definitely wasn't there before though. Since Ketamine is known to tense muscles, I wonder if the increased muscle tension in the middle ear and jaw could be a factor?
       
    8. GBB

      GBB Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Virus / Microsuction / Acoustic Trauma
      I tried it specifically for tinnitus - I believe it is worth experimenting until no options remain. It spiked me but only overnight for an evening, and then went back to baseline.
       
    9. kingsfan
      Mellow

      kingsfan Member

      Location:
      Southern California
      Tinnitus Since:
      Sep 17 '20 / Oct 20 '20 / Mar 31 '21
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      turning everything up to 11
      At least it seems like any spiking with these drugs is temporary. At the very least, if it spikes me, it might give me a new sense of appreciation for the level of tinnitus I'm currently at.
       
    10. GBB

      GBB Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Virus / Microsuction / Acoustic Trauma
      Ya I still have a bunch of things to try. I will eventually get to Ketamine but for now I'm housebound as I have a herniated disc and reactive tinnitus that makes it suck to drive.

      So far I've tried:

      Pramipexole
      Flexeril
      Mirtazapine
      Nortriptyline
      Alprazolam (Xanax)
      Leviracetam (Keppra)
      Memantine
      BPC-157
      TB-500

      Obviously this is just the prescription grade medicine - doesn't include LLLT or any of the 50-100 supplements I've tried.

      Still to try:

      Lenire
      DMSO
      Water Fasting
      Antiviral
      Stugeron
      Vinpocetine
      Ceretropic BPC
      PRP
      Botox
      Lidocaine
      Ketamine
      Psilocybin
      Acamprosate
      Caraoverine
      Oxytocin
      Piracetam
      Idubilast
      HBOT
      Ibogaine
      BGG492
      Misoprostol
       
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    11. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Did Keppra help?
       
    12. kingsfan
      Mellow

      kingsfan Member

      Location:
      Southern California
      Tinnitus Since:
      Sep 17 '20 / Oct 20 '20 / Mar 31 '21
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      turning everything up to 11
      You've tried a lot more than I have. I've only tried sinus irrigation and nasal steroids, Prednisone, Xanax, Valium, CBT and, of course, a multitude of supplements.

      Most things just seem like a waste of time or can only be used for a limited amount of time before the body becomes resistant.

      I've basically been looking at Ketamine and Low-Dose Naltrexone as things to try.
       
    13. GBB

      GBB Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Virus / Microsuction / Acoustic Trauma
      My reactivity went down after taking it and it also seemed to get rid of some of the other tactile nerves being fucked up elements of my experience - I am only on 1000 mg per day and I think the max is 3000 mg - I am considering asking my neurologist if I can go up.
       
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    14. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      This is one I'm considering myself especially since it can help with hyperacusis. Animals tolerate this drug extremely well also.

      Any sides?
       
    15. GBB

      GBB Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Virus / Microsuction / Acoustic Trauma
      No side effects that I have noticed. My doctor said some people get super angry rage on it and need to come off but that didn’t happen to me.
       
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    16. GBB

      GBB Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Virus / Microsuction / Acoustic Trauma
      Those both make sense to me. Personally I need to try everything.
       
    17. TomBradyGOAT

      TomBradyGOAT Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Who knows
      I have done 60 mg of IV Ketamine before, and 600 mg at most.

      I have done 30 mg troches and sucking on a 200 mg one right now.

      Nasal spray compounded I think I did 100 mg.

      Ask me anything if you want.
       
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    18. Lane

      Lane Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Single 25 mg. Dose of (Anticholinergic) Drug Promethazine
      @GBB -- Be very careful with that one. You may want to check out some Botox online support forums, where people who've had some pretty devastating side effects share stories and strategies.
       
    19. TomBradyGOAT

      TomBradyGOAT Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Who knows
      I can only speak to my experience using Botox for bruxism. It worked, had no side effects, I just wished it lasted longer.
       
    20. VeryUnfortunate
      Stressed

      VeryUnfortunate Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      January 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      How did the Ketamine work out for you? Any side effects? And how did you go about getting it?
       
    21. TomBradyGOAT

      TomBradyGOAT Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Who knows
      IV is through a clinic run by an anesthesiologist. I met God on 600 mg and it was done for pain. Top 6 experience of my life. Very light ringing after that. Since then I have done 6 more infusions ranging from 60 mg to 100 mg. I did go into a sort of K-hole each time except for the 60 mg. I could hear the tinnitus as I was dissociated but didn't care and didn't care after. Not like marijuana where if it goes crazy I freak out. We tried adding Propofol and Reglan for dopamine but that didn't seem to make a difference. Sometimes my tinnitus would be loud after and sometimes quiet after a session. Great though for dealing with stress and things you didn't know you had to face in life. Money kept me from going for maintenance doses.

      Nasal spray I don't remember much of. It made me groggy the next day. It didn't affect tinnitus one way or the other. I called compounding pharmacy and asked for the names of local doctors that prescribe Ketamine. Troches at 30 mg seemed to help. 200 mg I can definitely hear the tinnitus easier. Again almost like when smoking marijuana but without fearing it. You just accept it. Now why would I go up to 200 mg? Because it helps me more mentally. Mental health is the most important thing. Gonna have to make piece with tinnitus. Can't make piece with not facing my emotional demons. I got them through same doctor. Never K-holed on troches as the bioavailability is like 25% at best which equals 50 mg IV. And you better get it in the pours of your mouth or you are going to get a dud night.

      I also have Ketamine cream for muscles. I am moving to a mixture with Flexeril from Baclofen. I can't prove it but I felt like the Baclofen got into my bloodstream and really cranked up the tinnitus.

      Hopefully that helps answers your questions.
       
    22. Nate

      Nate Member Benefactor

      Location:
      MA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1989
      Hello,

      For anyone wondering if it will make your Tinnitus worse. I did one ketamine treatment and it did nothing to my Tinnitus, good or bad but like I said, I only did one treatment.
       
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    23. Lukee

      Lukee Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Breathing Exercise
      When you say you had very light ringing after that, do you mean permanently? And when you say you didn’t care about the tinnitus afterward on the lower doses, how long did that last?

      I have read similar experiences and even spoke to someone who said almost the same thing. He was doing infusions and initially they didn’t affect his tinnitus but he said he literally didn’t care about it for about 3 months after 2-3 infusions. He basically said he heard it loud and clear but it didn’t affect him one bit until several months down the road when the effects wore off and he got a tune up. He did this for a while, I don’t know how long but I’m guessing a year or years, then he switched clinics and got a higher dose of Ketamine on his first go. All of a sudden, his tinnitus was 5-10% of its normal volume. He said he barely cared about it before the treatment but unequivocally the treatment reduced the intensity by at least 90%. That was permanent (or at least a year). I’ve read similar stories to these accounts on other forums so I’m wondering if the Ketamine works kind of like some of the psychedelics where a macro dose will affect tinnitus but not necessarily a micro dose.

      I’m very curious what @TomBradyGOAT has to say about the reduction in ringing.
       
    24. kingsfan
      Mellow

      kingsfan Member

      Location:
      Southern California
      Tinnitus Since:
      Sep 17 '20 / Oct 20 '20 / Mar 31 '21
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      turning everything up to 11
      From what I've read it is supposed to be a very low dose drip over a span of a couple of hours, and is supposed to take 4 to 6 treatments for it to take effect. It's supposed to last for some time after... maybe a matter of months. Higher doses that are normally used for recreational use, I've read, can worsen symptoms.
       
    25. Lukee

      Lukee Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Breathing Exercise
      I have read and heard anecdotally reduction of symptoms at higher doses as well as lower Ketamine doses. I have also read of worsening of symptoms a both higher and lower doses but it seems less frequent and mostly temporary (usually just during the trip and shortly afterward). A neuro researcher I was talking to thinks that while Ketamine likely works as an NMDA antagonist to help with tinnitus, he believes that it’s possible that the people who are seeing the greatest benefit might have some form of neuro inflammation that the Ketamine is addressing.

      I don’t know if this has been posted here before but there’s a clinic in Arizona that uses Ketamine to treat tinnitus. They claim on their website that there is an improvement in 25% of the patients. I don’t think that’s an outlandish claim, it seems realistic and in line with the anecdotal accounts I have been reading. I guess if the Ketamine didn’t work to actually attenuate the tinnitus the anti-depressive effects of the Ketamine would still be advantageous to help deal with the perceived distress of tinnitus. Seems like a win-win barring any side effects. The clinic's name is Arizona Ketamine Treatment and Research Institute.
       
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    26. TomBradyGOAT

      TomBradyGOAT Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Who knows
      The reduction or increase would only last a day at most for me. I do have OCD so the caring is different between him and I. OCD can make something more important than it is. But while I was under the dissociation I didn't care.

      Honestly, it is a crap shoot and you never know what it is going to come out of it. MDMA has increased for some and taken it away for others. Same for Magic Mushrooms.

      I just found out how to make troches act much more like IV. Usually they tell you to just put the troches under your tongue. I found rubbing it with my tongue like sandpaper it will get better penetration into the pores (spelling) and you will get a much better effect. Just a tip in case somebody starts using them.
       
    27. Jack V

      Jack V Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1/2020
      You're mistaken. Ketamine has a short half-life, around 45 minutes, and has a history of broad, safe use as an anesthetic.
       
    28. xela1225

      xela1225 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
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    29. kingsfan
      Mellow

      kingsfan Member

      Location:
      Southern California
      Tinnitus Since:
      Sep 17 '20 / Oct 20 '20 / Mar 31 '21
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      turning everything up to 11
      After months of deliberation I'm going to try this... I just need to gather the motivation to call and make arrangements. I've been planning on driving over to the clinic in Arizona, though I have found another in Santa Monica. They don't say on their website that they do any treatments for tinnitus though, only depression. I also imagine they will be much more expensive due to the expensive location.
       
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    30. Lukee

      Lukee Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Breathing Exercise
      Good luck!

      I have only found the Arizona clinic as mentioning tinnitus, no one else I have found mentions it. Ironically, I think that many markets are not allowed to propose alternative treatments as they are not approved for anything but depression.
       
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