My Trip to Bangkok: Stem Cell Treatment [Comments]
- Thread starter Markku
- Start date
Member- Oct 17, 2017
- 658
- Tinnitus Since
- 2005
- Cause of Tinnitus
- unknown - possibly hereditary
HootOwl
Member
Has anyone looked into exosome stem cell therapy? I was calling around to a few stem cell clinics and one mentioned that they offer an exosome infusion directly. They claim they are moving away from umbilical cord MSCs since they've found much better results from using the exosomes directly (which are secreted by MSCs). So it's kind of like a cut out the middle man approach.
What's interesting is that from what I understand from this paper here (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30295280/) is that the growth factors that you usually have injected along with the stem cells stimulate the MSCs to release more exosomes, so getting as many of these guys released as possible sounds like the goal.
So would that mean that a direct exosome IV is considerably more potent?
The lab they source from is here -> https://kimeralabs.com/
Now this could just be an upsell since it's $1000 more, but after doing a search on the forum here and not seeing anyone mention them outside of a gene therapy thread, I was curious if anyone had any additional info or opinions on this?
What's interesting is that from what I understand from this paper here (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30295280/) is that the growth factors that you usually have injected along with the stem cells stimulate the MSCs to release more exosomes, so getting as many of these guys released as possible sounds like the goal.
So would that mean that a direct exosome IV is considerably more potent?
The lab they source from is here -> https://kimeralabs.com/
Now this could just be an upsell since it's $1000 more, but after doing a search on the forum here and not seeing anyone mention them outside of a gene therapy thread, I was curious if anyone had any additional info or opinions on this?
HootOwl
Member
So I've scheduled a consultation with this clinic and 2 others. I'm interested in getting the ball rolling and seeing if I can alleviate these screeching bells even a little.
HootOwl
Member
No, standard IV and intranasal. They can't do intratympabic for liability reasons, which is understandable.
I would kill however, for a clinical study that shows the safety and efficacy of a PRP/Exosome/NT-3 mix administered via Intratympanic. We will at least have some more concrete data for the efficacy of BDNF once Otonomy finishes trialing OTO-313, even if they are only trailing acute cases and not chronic.
HootOwl
Member
Mostly if there's a synergistic effect that could profoundly repair synaptic damage or other neuropathies. Maybe I'm off base here, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I'd hold off on spending your money or go to South Korea, it's got to get into and behind the round window... I believe. I may be wrong if you have auto immune disorders.
The sweet spot is the inner ear.
What was the so called cure with avocados that you could get in Mexico called? My co-worker's wife had cancer. They spent $30000 for the treatment which was probably a good chunk of their life's savings. She was dead within months.
- Aug 4, 2019
- 94
- Tinnitus Since
- 2001
- Cause of Tinnitus
- medication
@Samantha R I know this is an old thread, but would you mind sharing the name of the clinic in NY?
Also, for anyone who is interested, I reached out to Macquarie to ask for more info and the below is what they wrote back. Anybody living in Australia know anything about this?
Thank you for your enquiry, our treatment is on hold.
We have added your enquiry into our database and will get back to you when treatments resume.
Unfortunately we are showing you this automated message to inform you that Stem Cell Therapies are paused as of 30th of June 2019, due to new TGA regulations.
Our calendar is currently exhausted and we are not in a position to take on any new patients.
New regulations were introduced from 1 July 2018, transitional arrangements applied until 30 June 2019.
These actions are beyond our control and enforced by the government. These regulations apply to all stem cell clinics in Australia. In the meantime, we will be working towards the new regulations.
We will contact you, once we can resume stem cell treatments, this may take a few months or possibly up to 3 years.
Also, for anyone who is interested, I reached out to Macquarie to ask for more info and the below is what they wrote back. Anybody living in Australia know anything about this?
Thank you for your enquiry, our treatment is on hold.
We have added your enquiry into our database and will get back to you when treatments resume.
Unfortunately we are showing you this automated message to inform you that Stem Cell Therapies are paused as of 30th of June 2019, due to new TGA regulations.
Our calendar is currently exhausted and we are not in a position to take on any new patients.
New regulations were introduced from 1 July 2018, transitional arrangements applied until 30 June 2019.
These actions are beyond our control and enforced by the government. These regulations apply to all stem cell clinics in Australia. In the meantime, we will be working towards the new regulations.
We will contact you, once we can resume stem cell treatments, this may take a few months or possibly up to 3 years.
- Apr 23, 2015
- 418
- Tinnitus Since
- 01/21/2014
- Cause of Tinnitus
- High frequency hearing loss in left ear from head trauma (?)
Note that StemCells21 does not include hearing loss/tinnitus in the list of conditions treated any more.
https://www.stemcells21.com/conditions-treated/
https://www.stemcells21.com/conditions-treated/
- Jun 13, 2019
- 1,108
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Started with a cold, possibly worsened by medication/noise
I wrote to them a while back, from their reply my impression is that they treat primarily hearing loss and that, as a side effect, you may get benefits for tinnitus, but they don't treat tinnitus as a primary condition apparently.
Columbia University is currently doing a clinical trial with stem cells for hearing loss.
Stanford is doing pioneering research.
Outside of perhaps an autoimmune illness, BK Thailand is more than happy to take your $50,000 and have lots of good looking smartly dressed people be super gracious and polite as they fleece your money. I live In SE Asia, it's standard operating procedure. Japan and Korea are a much better bet for cutting edge science. In my not so humble opinion.
- Jun 13, 2019
- 1,108
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Started with a cold, possibly worsened by medication/noise
Indeed, occasionally they emphasize venue and shopping more than science. There is no systematic dataset on the efficacy of the treatment for tinnitus/hearing. Having said that, they do have a good reputation in the stem cells industry as far as I understand. But I would be more confident in spending those amounts of money in presence of clear statistics showing efficacy rather than anecdotal reports from a couple of people here. Such stats aren't available anywhere else, to be fair to them.
- Jun 13, 2019
- 1,108
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Started with a cold, possibly worsened by medication/noise
I'm not really planning to go short term, and your opinion is most welcome. I contacted a stem cell academic in London for suggestions.
Do let us know what your friend in London says, the more input and info the better.
Perhaps in 10 years stem cells will be routine. Now it seems to be a cowboy industry, with a few amazing results for sure, countered by a huge amount of failures. I suppose that's the evolution of medicine or innovation in general. I hope our time comes this coming decade. Sure would be nice, for us and the youngsters visiting this forum. Take care friend.
- Jun 13, 2019
- 1,108
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Started with a cold, possibly worsened by medication/noise
Absolutely. I'll share any feedback I get from the UCL team. I agree with you on the cowboy assessment. These clinics are in Thailand, Russia, China. Nothing wrong with that, but I'd like one in Europe or US for comparison. The fun one is the one called Swiss Medica, I thought it was in Switzerland so I looked it up, to find it was actually based in Russia.
I am also concerned about the safety of stem cells. More research is needed for that. Let's hope we can all benefit from this in 10 years or less once many of these issues are hopefully clarified. Take care.
Can someone refresh my memory as to the three (?) participants who underwent this therapy? @attheedgeofscience saw modest to significant improvement, @undecided went in complete remission, and I can't remember the third?
I stumbled across this thread while looking for something else...
Stem Cell Treatments are now around $5,000 at several places near me. For pain relief, I'm considering Ketamine but I understand that Stem Cells can do pain relief as well. And it may correct my Tinnitus as a bonus. Mine was caused by toxic mold exposure my ears were basically poisoned.
What is the difference between those stem cell places that are everywhere now and the one in Thailand?
Well, first, where are these clinics and what stem cells did they indicate they used?
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