My Trip to Bangkok: Stem Cell Treatment [Comments]

[undecided]

Thanks for posting this. I'm curious as to how @undecided is doing. Waiting on Mutebutton results, then I wanna try a SC treatment

I am doing the same.

People, u need to use your heads on this.
Maybe stem cells are a thing, maybe they will work some sorcery in 6-12-18 months, maybe they were just simple injections of natural serum with some color additive, presented to the patient in order to extract some thousands of dollars from said patient's pockets (mine included).

I say, bide your time. Wait for actual results and valid studies before you commit to such an unproven, costly, possibly dangerous endeavor.

But then again, it might all be fantastic and we'll get better and better as time goes by.

Fact is - I DON'T know. Nobody knows. I'm just hopeful.
Use your brain and do a reality check, think about all that cash you're saying bye-bye to (I happened to have a great job and could kinda easily afford the trip, I needed the vacation as well).

This is not Harry Potter's magic healing wand. There's no telling that a strong immune system won't dispose of the stem cells the very next day. But then again, there's no telling the stem cells do their stuff.

And another thing. The prominent theory about T says that hair cells are dead due to oxidation of the area around the cochlea and that area is replaced with scar tissue, mere hours later. How are IV stem cells supposed to get to a place where blood is no longer able to reach or circulate AT ALL. Ever thought of that? How are stem cells going to end up in a place where the doors have been closed shut.

Anyway, I'm rambling here. Stem cells are a Hail Mary and I've said that from the beginning, I hope they do something (they don't seem to be doing much up until now) but I'm certainly hopeful that one day (one day) maybe they'll work their magic.

I won't be updating that often, unless there is something of importance to talk about.

 

[katri]

I am doing the same.

People, u need to use your heads on this.
Maybe stem cells are a thing, maybe they will work some sorcery in 6-12-18 months, maybe they were just simple injections of natural serum with some color additive, presented to the patient in order to extract some thousands of dollars from said patient's pockets (mine included).

I say, bide your time. Wait for actual results and valid studies before you commit to such an unproven, costly, possibly dangerous endeavor.

But then again, it might all be fantastic and we'll get better and better as time goes by.

Fact is - I DON'T know. Nobody knows. I'm just hopeful.
Use your brain and do a reality check, think about all that cash you're saying bye-bye to (I happened to have a great job and could kinda easily afford the trip, I needed the vacation as well).

This is not Harry Potter's magic healing wand. There's no telling that a strong immune system won't dispose of the stem cells the very next day. But then again, there's no telling the stem cells do their stuff.

And another thing. The prominent theory about T says that hair cells are dead due to oxidation of the area around the cochlea and that area is replaced with scar tissue, mere hours later. How are IV stem cells supposed to get to a place where blood is no longer able to reach or circulate AT ALL. Ever thought of that? How are stem cells going to end up in a place where the doors have been closed shut.

Anyway, I'm rambling here. Stem cells are a Hail Mary and I've said that from the beginning, I hope they do something (they don't seem to be doing much up until now) but I'm certainly hopeful that one day (one day) maybe they'll work their magic.

I won't be updating that often, unless there is something of importance to talk about.

@JohnAdams @PolishSoldier87

 

[PolishSoldier87]

I know, @katri.

Stem cells, for now, don't work in most cases of hearing loss, and, adipose stem cells won't work at all.

Nothing will work without viral/molecular genetic manipulation. And obviously not without any gene expression if there are dead hair cells. Maybe there is a way to induce the regeneration of hair cells with genetically modified stem cells, however what is the point of genetically manipulated stem cells since you can provide molecules that will make your body regenerate hair cells itself thru differentiation of supporting cells.

 

[missingsilence]

What is the consensus on autologous stem cells? Like the ones they extract from your bone marrow?

 

[undecided]

I feel it is time for an update, since it's actually been three months since my treatment.
They actually give you various supplements (an entire bag of them) for three months - and I've religiously taken all that stuff (with minor exceptions and inconsistencies) every day. And now the supplements are gone. It's been three months, it's over.

So the part you're probably interested in. The tinnitus. I think it's going well. Better than I thought. The last couple of weeks have been very silent and the tinnitus not bothersome at all. I had a bit of a reactive element to my T, if you followed my posts in the past, this has not ever really ever bothered me but now it seems to be totally gone.

The other day I was eating at this really loud Mexican restaurant, wearing earplugs obviously, and I could not hear the tinnitus even wearing the earplugs. Drunk three or four Margaritas, my ears should be bad the next day, I've done it numerous times in the past, believe me, yet they weren't bad. Same thing at the movies a couple of days ago. Earplugs, could hardly hear the T. Weird.

I'm not saying that the tinnitus is gone, I can still hear it if I look for it (but at a very diminished volume) so there's no miracle happening here, but progress? Maybe? Perhaps?

Or maybe (and this is a strong, strong possibility), I'm just having one of my honeymoon tinnitus phases (T fluctuations that can last weeks, loud weeks/days, silent weeks/days).

Right now I'm putting my money down on the fluctuation thing but I can certainly not rule out the stem cells doing "something". But I have no scientific or theoretical or practical method to prove or disprove anything, so my best guess is fluctuations.

So there you go. It's just silent right now and at least I can enjoy it while it lasts...

 

[The Frenchie]

Wow. Very very interesting.
I have a question, why would a person have some phases where the Tinnitus is low pitched for hours, days, weeks?

So if Bob has loud Tinnitus. Let's say he has noise induced T.
If Bob has the perfect metabolism, eats the best food, lack for nothing. He takes no drugs, doesn't smoke.. you get it?

The ONLY thing he has is noise induced tinnitus. Damaged hair cells.

WHY would the T calm down?

 

[PDodge]

Wow. Very very interesting.
I have a question, why would a person have some phases where the Tinnitus is low pitched for hours, days, weeks?

So if Bob has loud Tinnitus. Let's say he has noise induced T.
If Bob has the perfect metabolism, eats the best food, lack for nothing. He takes no drugs, doesn't smoke.. you get it?

The ONLY thing he has is noise induced tinnitus. Damaged hair cells.

WHY would the T calm down?

Great question. I'm pretty sure my T is noise induced and it fluctuates wildley in both sound and volume

 

[jer]

@undecided I am very happy to hear that you are doing so well after the treatment. Congrats!

Would you be able to just update us every month or so on how you are doing? It will be able to give us (those people thinking about this procedure), and maybe yourself too a little insight if it really was progress due to the treatment that you made, or if as you said it was due to "honeymoon tinnitus phases" and your typical fluctuations?

 

[PDodge]

@undecided I am very happy to hear that you are doing so well after the treatment. Congrats!

Would you be able to just update us every month or so on how you are doing? It will be able to give us (those people thinking about this procedure), and maybe yourself too a little insight if it really was progress due to the treatment that you made, or if as you said it was due to "honeymoon tinnitus phases" and your typical fluctuations?

Yes this would be fantastic! Too bad is so much gosh darn money!

 

[undecided]

@undecided I am very happy to hear that you are doing so well after the treatment. Congrats!

Would you be able to just update us every month or so on how you are doing? It will be able to give us (those people thinking about this procedure), and maybe yourself too a little insight if it really was progress due to the treatment that you made, or if as you said it was due to "honeymoon tinnitus phases" and your typical fluctuations?

Sure, that is the plan. A monthly (or bi-monthly, if I'm bored) update on the situation.
For now, I can happily say that my tinnitus is hiding itself for quite a few days to call it a fluctuation. I think this stuff might actually be doing something.

 

[Zeneth]

Sure, that is the plan. A monthly (or bi-monthly, if I'm bored) update on the situation.
For now, I can happily say that my tinnitus is hiding itself for quite a few days to call it a fluctuation. I think this stuff might actually be doing something.

Good news, let's hope it stays that way! If it does then that's 3 people from here that have done this and gotten positive results?

 

[PDodge]

Good news, let's hope it stays that way! If it does then that's 3 people from here that have done this and gotten positive results?

yep!

 

[jer]

@undecided Thank you very much! Me (and I am sure many others) really appreciate the updates. I am curious to see how it holds up over a longer period of time. It would be great if you could let us know as well if you have any setbacks due to new noise exposure, ototoxic medications or anything external not related to your normal fluctuations or your treatment.

I hope you really enjoy your newfound sense of quietness and freedom.

P.S. Do you know what the cause of your tinnitus was? I have seen several people getting good/great results with the stem cell treatment, when the tinnitus was not due to noise exposure or ototoxic medications.

 

[Jason_Cohen]

@undecided Thank you very much! Me (and I am sure many others) really appreciate the updates. I am curious to see how it holds up over a longer period of time. It would be great if you could let us know as well if you have any setbacks due to new noise exposure, ototoxic medications or anything external not related to your normal fluctuations or your treatment.

I hope you really enjoy your newfound sense of quietness and freedom.

P.S. Do you know what the cause of your tinnitus was? I have seen several people getting good/great results with the stem cell treatment, when the tinnitus was not due to noise exposure or ototoxic medications.

What were the causes of tinnitus for those who had good results?

 

[jer]

@Jason_Cohen,

I believe @attheedgeofscience had a good response to the treatment amongst others. I believe his tinnitus was brought on by autoimmune disease if I am not mistaken. The others who did well with this treatment, I cannot remember their cause.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

@undecided

Have you experienced any good or bad side effects from the stem cell treatment?

 

[Jason_Cohen]

Are there theoretical reasons for why SC treatment wouldn't work as well for people with noise-induced tinnitus?

One would think damage to the inner-ear is damage to the inner-ear regardless of the cause.

 

[GregCA]

Are there theoretical reasons for why SC treatment wouldn't work as well for people with noise-induced tinnitus?

One would think damage to the inner-ear is damage to the inner-ear regardless of the cause.

Damage to the inner ear can mean very different things. A treatment for damage X is not going to fix damage Y, even if damage X and Y result in similar "hearing loss" symptoms/outcomes.

 

[Jason_Cohen]

True. Do we know of any people who had SC treatment at the StemCells21 clinic for tinnitus due to noise damage?

 

[Sam Bridge]

Hello everyone !

I was wondering how Bill was doing these days... Does anyone has news from him ???

All the Best !

Christophe

Old post I know, but I am pretty sure he would have been in the Neuromod trials as he is from Ireland. Maybe we will hear from him some time?

 

[Arseny]

Hello everyone,

I might do stem cells soon.
Yesterday I took a flight to another city.
I have found a doctor who already had experience with intratympanic mesenchymal stem cells from bone marrow. He can do PRP too, but advised against it, because of my allergies.

I have found a clinic where they can harvest stem cells however they told me that I have to wait a month after the harvesting in order for stem cells to grow. It seems that they are going to incubate them or something like that.
This is concerning since I've heard anedoctal reports that stem cells die off quickly without proper handling and waiting for a month seems strange.
I'm going to contact the clinic in 2 days again however I'm in another city right now so obviously I'd like to gather as much information as possible before Monday.
Should I try to find another clinic that can deliver stem cells right away? Or discuss instant delivery with this one?

Where can I get reliable information about stem cells? Does anyone know about this one month incubation period? Is is bad for stem cells?

I'm thinking to do intratympanic mesenchymal stem cells from bone marrow with intratympanic PRP and adipose stem cells intravenous.

Tinnutis is from ETD, noise induced and from bad blood flow in the neck.
I had conductive loss in left ear from ETD and then slight sensoneurinal after acoustic trauma (brain MRI) in the left ear also + somatic blood whoosh in right ear.
I got steroids, HBOT, Ipidacrine and now audiogram shows 10 db across all frequencies in both ears up to 16000 Hz.

@attheedgeofscience @undecided @DebInAustralia

 

[lymebite]

I have found a clinic where they can harvest stem cells however they told me that I have to wait a month after the harvesting in order for stem cells to grow.

This is a process sometimes known as "culturing" the stem cells and is done this way in order to greatly multiply the number of stem cells.

One clinic in the United States that seems to be a leader in America using the multiplication / culturing approach to stem cell therapy is Celltex in Houston, Texas. Their website has quite a bit of information. Their most famous patient of Celltex is Rick Perry, the United States Secretary of Energy.

https://celltexbank.com/how-it-works/extraction-culturing/

 

[Benoves]

@undecided how is it going?

 

[undecided]

Time for an update I guess.

I won't rumble, just a bottom line.
If you got the cash (and you know it's a lot of cash) and you got a good job, a supporting family, chances you won't go bankrupt etc, read, learn, read again on the subject and decide if you want to take a chance. Because you're just taking a chance.

I believe that after 7 months, stem cells have been mildly good for me overall but not to a degree that I would consider them a viable cure or treatment. No way. My 8/10 was the worst it could get, it was pretty bad but I was learning to live with it. Now my worst is 6/10 and, obviously, I can live with that a lot easier and it comes around a lot less often. So, it was not money down the drain, I got something out of it. A little something out of it. Even if it wasn't the miracle I expected.

If you don't got the money, or you're saving up for it, or you live in a generally unhealthy environment (objectively and emotionally I mean), I would stay away from stem cells. It will leave you penny-less, it might do nothing for you (or it might do miracles) but it is what it is. An understudied methodology that could potentially do more harm than good, in the long term. I would give it some years and some people studying the procedure before I went for it and expected something truly great out of it.

So, it's up to you. You take a chance or you don't. I know that most of you will think that you'll win the lottery but it doesn't work that way.

Hope that everyone is doing good and will continue to do so, even without stem cells. I really don't know when my next update is going to be, I'm moving and there's a lot to be done.

 

[Vincent R]

No way. My 8/10 was the worst it could get, it was pretty bad but I was learning to live with it. Now my worst is 6/10 and, obviously, I can live with that a lot easier and it comes around a lot less often. So, it was not money down the drain, I got something out of it. A little something out of it. Even if it wasn't the miracle I expected.

Happy to hear you are doing well, undecided. Thanks for the update.

I conclude that the treatment appears to have provided an improvement with 25 percent. For a supposedly "uncurable" condition, I think that's impressive.

 

[undecided]

@undecided how is it going?

I don't really use the forum all that much lately, but since there is a quite a bit of interest (looking at my private messages) - I guess it's short update time.

Bottom line, there is a slight improvement but not really anything to write home about. Do something else with your money. I've had a very good run for about a month, and that reflects on some of my previous forum posts. But in the long run... bleh, not worth it. The tinnitus came back to its previous undetermined pattern, went a bit higher, then a bit lower, you get the picture. Just some happy fluctuations and some unhappy fluctuations.

If you've got the money, well go for it. Who knows, maybe its just what you need. But I don't know if there's gonna be a happy end for you. Everyone's different. Maybe you'll get better, maybe you'll stay the same, you'll probably not get worse but you'll wonder whether it was money down the drain or a good decision.

For myself and only for myself, I wouldn't do it again. No way. I have found other means to get by and you'll probably have to find your own medicine. What works for you.

That's it. Best wishes to everyone, whatever you do.

 

[ee9892]

I don't really use the forum all that much lately, but since there is a quite a bit of interest (looking at my private messages) - I guess it's short update time.

Bottom line, there is a slight improvement but not really anything to write home about. Do something else with your money. I've had a very good run for about a month, and that reflects on some of my previous forum posts. But in the long run... bleh, not worth it. The tinnitus came back to its previous undetermined pattern, went a bit higher, then a bit lower, you get the picture. Just some happy fluctuations and some unhappy fluctuations.

If you've got the money, well go for it. Who knows, maybe its just what you need. But I don't know if there's gonna be a happy end for you. Everyone's different. Maybe you'll get better, maybe you'll stay the same, you'll probably not get worse but you'll wonder whether it was money down the drain or a good decision.

For myself and only for myself, I wouldn't do it again. No way. I have found other means to get by and you'll probably have to find your own medicine. What works for you.

That's it. Best wishes to everyone, whatever you do.

Thanks for the information. I'd recommend that people on this forum hold out on the Neuromod release and results from Susan Shore's phase 2 before pursuing this avenue.

 

[dayma]

So I am following someone on Facebook that is reporting her husband/boyfriend has been in Mexico getting treatment and it worked. They now have no tinnitus at all. "Diana Gong" on Facebook is reporting this.

 

[grate_biff]

So I am following someone on Facebook that is reporting her husband/boyfriend has been in Mexico getting treatment and it worked. They now have no tinnitus at all. "Diana Gong" on Facebook is reporting this.

What kind of treatment?

 

[dayma]

What kind of treatment?

Stem cell transplantation method.