My Trip to Bangkok: Stem Cell Treatment [Comments]

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by Markku, Aug 18, 2013.

    1. mrbrightside614

      mrbrightside614 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      NE Ohio, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma
      Stem Cell 21 primarily uses mesenchymal stem cells, though I’m told they will have induced pluripotent stem cells in 2020. Further, their delivery sites can include the ear, nasal passages and systemic circulation. This Dallas one looks like systemic only, and with poorer choices for treating tinnitus (adipose and bone marrow). I doubt you would get any benefit for tinnitus from them.
       
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    2. Juan

      Juan Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several causes
      Until the US allow scientifics to fully research stem cell treatments to their full potential there will be no progress on this field. It is a shame that religion and absurd beliefs hamper scientific progress and erase the slim hope people who suffer from a lot of diseases and health conditions may have.
       
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    3. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      You're talking about embryonic stem cells. The absurd beliefs your talking about are the belief that little babies in the womb should not be violently dismembered and ripped out. Guess what? They don't even need to end the life of an innocent to get embryonic stem cells anymore so cool it with the bloodlust.

      https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/st...s-create-embryonic-stem-cells-without-embryo/
       
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    4. Juan

      Juan Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several causes
      I meant religion in general.
       
    5. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Why don't you like religion in general?
       
    6. Juan

      Juan Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several causes
      It hampers progress.
       
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    7. Rafaa

      Rafaa Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Who knows? I have Patulous ET and ETD + Other things
      @attheedgeofscience

      Thanks for sharing your experiences. It is interesting you are able to breathe better through your nose. Do you have any scientific theory as to why? It seems it could have regrown damaged cilia allowing better passage of mucus and pathogens from your sinuses. Or it could be the nerves in sinuses were repaired so they perform better. Interested in your thoughts.
       
    8. Sevv

      Sevv Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      12.04.2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert
      Sorry to crush the hope, but I'm not so sure if iPSCs will be an option. I read the following in a study:

      The basic paradigm in the use of PSCs for cell therapy purposes is that they are first differentiated into the desired cell types of interest, and the resulting specialized tissue-specific cells are then transplanted as cell suspensions or more complex tissue constructs into patients. The differentiation step is crucial because if proliferating, undifferentiated PSCs are directly injected, they would form tumors called teratomas due to their highly proliferative nature and broad differentiation potential. (https://stemcellres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13287-019-1455-y).
      So it seems you can't just inject iPSCs into the ear because of tumor risk if I understand this correctly.
       
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    9. mrbrightside614

      mrbrightside614 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      NE Ohio, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma
      You do. They have to be induced, which can be successfully done, but they never replied to my email about whether they can do it.
       
    10. Sevv

      Sevv Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      12.04.2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert
      If I unterstand it correctly you would first have to make iPSCs (which is mostly established by now how to do it, although still quite complicated), but then you would have to differentiate them into hair cells and then inject them so you don't get teratoma (man they are disgusting :D). But I don't know if such hair cells would integrate into the cochlea in the correct way. FX-322 seems more precise in that matter. Although we can't ignore that stem cells have benefited other users here before (and I've added them to the list of my options in the case I can't deal with my tinnitus anymore, though I'm waiting a couple months/years first to see whether I can habituate to this new louder noise). :) But umbilical cord blood stem cells, the next best thing after IPSCs, are multipotent stem cells and not pluripotent, so they can't proliferate without limit, so there's little / no risk with tumor formation.
       
    11. Piney

      Piney Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Shingles virus
      All I know is Ozzy Osbourne apparently is doing much better after Stem Cell treatment in Panama for Parkinson’s, so there must be something promising to it.

      I’m hoping the Coronavirus exposes the lack of treatment and speed of cures due to FDA red tape, trials at a snail pace, and ineffective medicine. Sad but true, it's time for the US Gov to look at where the money is really going and start questioning how come since the dawn of time we still can’t cure the common cold. Unfortunately it takes a disaster sometimes to change the status quo.
       
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    12. Zaimon

      Zaimon Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sudden Hearing Loss
      Î am curious... The last entry was in 2013... How is @attheedgeofscience now? Did those stem cells really help?
       
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    13. GBB

      GBB Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Virus / Microsuction / Acoustic Trauma
      He still purports to be fine with minimal tinnitus. He is still on here every once in a while.
       
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    14. Pharz

      Pharz Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Exposure to loud noise
      So happy to know that someone has been almost cured! Almost 8 years have passed since the beginning of this thread, I hope the science has improved and the treatments are somewhat cheaper and more accessible.

      Does anybody have any update on these stem cell treatments?
       
    15. GBB

      GBB Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Virus / Microsuction / Acoustic Trauma
      I think the notion that stem cell therapy is still in its infancy holds true across most of healthcare - if you do get stem cell treatment, it's more of a shotgun approach to see what sticks.
       
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    16. Pharz

      Pharz Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Exposure to loud noise
      I read somewhere that the problem with stem cell therapy is uncontrollable reproduction of the injected cells and hence cancer, do you perhaps know if this problem has been solved throughout these years?
       
    17. Lukee

      Lukee Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador

      Location:
      Toronto, Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Wim Hof Breathing Exercises
      Reports of cancer from SCs are rare in general. There actually isn’t too much scientific evidence proving SCs exacerbate cancer growth and it’s a theory for the most part. The thing with SCs is that it’s difficult to target a specific area or malady with them and the shotgun metaphor is likely accurate. Clinics do things to try and help along the targeted use of SCs but in reality it helps very little. Mostly, SCs will go where they are needed which is why sometimes people with comorbidities see improvements in many areas while getting treatment. I believe that SCs can help things like ear disorders but you take a gamble as to how much improvement you will see.

      Stem Cell therapy gets a bad rap from the FDA because it’s unregulated and many clinics performing these therapies are ripping off their patients and injecting potentially harmful substances. I have read a story about one clinic injecting people with steroids, albumin and other medications that would make the patient feel like a kid again for the proceeding days but shortly after fall back into the same chronic condition.

      If you have the means and go to a reputable clinic, you will likely get some improvement in any ear disorder but no one can tell you how much. The real future of stem cells is using mRNA to reprogram them to cure chronic conditions. This is happening right now. We have effectively “cured” sickle cell disease, beta thalassemia, pyruvate kinase disease, etc. These blood disorders were basically a life sentence before but over the last 12 months, science has used SC and mRNA to rewrite DNA and remove genetic errors. This is the future of medicine. Unfortunately for the US (and Canada) we are still very far behind in this technology mainly because of the political issues surrounding embryonic stem cells. Today MSC can be used but the technology as a whole is far behind that of other countries. This is why people are going to Bangkok to get SC treatment for their ears or to Germany to get cancer treatment (which I believe BioNtech will have cures for some types of cancers in the next 24 months).
       
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    18. Pharz

      Pharz Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Exposure to loud noise
      Unfortunately after getting tinnitus I realised how many scams there are for different illnesses around the world. I guess waiting is the only option. I hope someone finds the Penicillin of the tinnitus soon.
       
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    19. danielthor

      danielthor Member

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Ozzy has tinnitus too, right? Would be interesting to know if it did anything for that.
       
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    20. Quiet please
      Balanced

      Quiet please Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Westchester County, NY
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Cochlear Endolymphatic Hydrops/Hearing loss
      This is sure interesting.

      Does anyone have any idea if this particular stem cell therapy makes you immunocompromised? That’s not a safe position to be in especially in today’s world.
       
    21. danielthor

      danielthor Member

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      This would explain why his was a success.

      Stem cells appearently act as immune-modulators, and that’s all they do. They can not fix anything in the brain after a certain time-limit (hours to a couple of days).

      In ATEOS’s case the stem cells must have simply repaired his immune system which stopped his tinnitus.

      I’m now more convinced than ever that stem cells will do nothing for me.
       
    22. volsung37

      volsung37 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      It is such a shame that when people get ill with tinnitus and other diseases they become vulnerable to charlatans and people consumed with greed.
       
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    23. danielthor

      danielthor Member

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Chloe Sohl, the tinnitus story that inspired ATEOS to go ahead with it turns out to be also a case of autoimmune.

      I don’t think there’s a single successful report from a noise-induced case.
       
    24. SmallRonnie
      Ape-like

      SmallRonnie Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hyperacusis: Factory Noise / Tinnitus: PC Noise
      @LJMD said his tinnitus was noise-induced.

      I haven't delved deeply into every small case to be honest. I'll still probably go get the treatment anyway.
       
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    25. danielthor

      danielthor Member

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Is he still active? If that’s true then that would be amazing.

      How long did he have it?
       
    26. Vincent R
      Caffeine

      Vincent R Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma
      You shouldn't opt for a stem cell treatment unless you're prepared to take a chance.

      But ATEOS has never said that his tinnitus was caused by an autoimmune disease.

      Indeed, he is not sure what caused the onset. He has speculated it might have been a hit to the ear.
       
    27. danielthor

      danielthor Member

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      From what I’ve read so far (not much), ATEOS had mild tinnitus since childhood. Could this be the autoimmune disorder that @jer here is referring to? ATEOS said there could be made no doubts about the efficacy of the stem cells, since it could by no chance be a coincidence, seeing improvements in that tone so suddenly after so many years. He got another tone by (possibly) a hit to the ear some months before the treatment, and about 3 months after the treatment he saw improvements in that too. That tone could simply have resolved on its own by that time, coincidentally. Don’t you think so?

      Just to clear my point up; The stem cells likely fixed his immune system, ridding him off the tone he had had since childhood, and by 3 months the tone he got after the hit had coincidentally resolved naturally and with time, like a lot of cases of tinnitus do.

      We have to weigh all this in before considering this.
       
    28. SmallRonnie
      Ape-like

      SmallRonnie Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hyperacusis: Factory Noise / Tinnitus: PC Noise
      This study here seems very promising:

      Safety of Autologous Umbilical Cord Blood Therapy for Acquired Sensorineural Hearing Loss in Children

      It doesn't say how they acquired SNHL though.

      For me, it's definitely worth at least trying the stem cell treatment. It won't make it worse anyway and there are no side effects. I just want to visit my ENT first but I need to wait another month to see him.

      It is very expensive though too but that isn't an issue for me right now thankfully, otherwise I may have to think harder about it but would probably still try to do it.
      He's not active anymore so one would assume he is better. You can go through his posts to see.
       
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    29. danielthor

      danielthor Member

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      And now they seem to have deleted this section.

      Which could only mean that they’ve had more failures than wins for patients with tinnitus. Being truthful like that gives them a lot of credibility though, so maybe the rest of what they are saying is actually true. Maybe they actually can treat this broad spectrum of neurological disorders that they claim to be able to on their page. This gives me a lot of hope, since I’m mainly looking to have my neuro-disorder treated.
       
    30. Uklawyer

      Uklawyer Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Medication - antidepressants
      @danielthor - can you say which neurological disorder you have?
       
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