New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

Discussion in 'Research News' started by Hudson, Jun 20, 2013.

    1. EDDTEKK

      EDDTEKK Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      Seth Koehler from Decibel Therapeutics worked for the Michigan University: "research into the role of the somatosensory system in tinnitus“ for almost 6 years (from 2007 to 2013). So he was part of the team I guess.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Informative Informative x 1
    2. Nick47

      Nick47 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
      @EDDTEKK, yes, I did a search on him. There's a whole team in the Shore Lab and he was part of it. I noticed he has been at Decibel Therapeutics for over 4 years in an executive role.
       
    3. dj_newark

      dj_newark Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1990
      I've asked Dr. Shore about the names on the patents for the device, and whether Decibel Therapeutics has any involvement in Auricle. This is what she had to say:
       
      • Informative Informative x 9
      • Like Like x 1
    4. Nick47

      Nick47 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
      Option Agreement Between the University of Michigan and Auricle Inc. (PDF)

      A bit of information on the relationship between the University of Michigan and Auricle. Seems that, as the treatment was developed by the University of Michigan, they retain rights to it and an option to buy was granted to Auricle, whilst the University of Michigan also have rights to retain and develop the concept.

      Always an issue. For instance, as a lecturer, I was told materials developed - whilst at work, using work materials - remain a property of the college after I leave.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Informative Informative x 1
    5. Joeseph Stope
      Innocent

      Joeseph Stope Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise? infection? negative stress? other?
      That depends of course on the laws of the jurisdiction in question. It ain't all so cut & dried -- especially when it's involving ideas, know-how etc.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    6. CarlosEstan
      Inspired

      CarlosEstan Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Induced
      "The University will retain ownership of the optioned technology and may continue to further develop it and use it internally."

      This is of mild concern to me, do we know if Dr. Shore intends to retire from academia? If so, this line is of particular concern because who will pick up the mantel? I have never seen a legal agreement of this kind so I assume to take what is stated as double sided. I see no reason the company could not modify the device and submit licensing approval, but I am unsure.
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    7. Jonno02
      Wishful

      Jonno02 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music / ETD
      I have zero insight to back this up, but I’d imagine that’s just a contractual terminology to ensure the University gets its piece of the pie. They were paying Dr. Shore a salary during development after all.

      I don’t think they would just sit on this goldmine of a technology if Dr. Shore left academia. I’d imagine there’d be some licensing agreement whereby the University would own a stake in Auricle.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    8. Nick47

      Nick47 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
      I'm really not sure...

      First I thought you had to identify the frequency of the tinnitus, say 4/6/8 kHz, then the treatment frequency was set to match that and paired with timed electrical stimulation.

      Surely multi-tonal/broadband/cicadas are a mix of different frequencies... I dunno :-/

      It would be valuable to hear from someone else other than @linearb who was involved in the Phase 1 trial (20 participants) or the Phase 2 trial (99 participants). These people exist...
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    9. BuzzyBee
      Bookworm

      BuzzyBee Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Not Sure
      Has anybody's audiologist or ear doctor ever mentioned this device or said it might offer hope?

      I've given up on it, tbh. I don't want to, but I just haven't had any positive mentions from hearing professional.
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
      • Winner Winner x 1
    10. DeanD

      DeanD Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction
      I very much doubt many will know anything of it. Many follow standards of care guidelines rather than constantly researching things in clinical trials.

      Many audiologists will be focusing on the usual hearing checks, tests and promoting the current latest range of available hearing devices.

      Very rarely will they be spending their time researching latest news.

      A couple of audiologists I spoke to hadn't even heard of Lenire - but then again they wouldn't mention even if they had as often it would clash with their own business model and hearing aid options.
       
      • Agree Agree x 4
      • Like Like x 1
    11. Utdmad89

      Utdmad89 Member

      Location:
      United Kingdom
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Not sure
      It's not even out yet.
       
      • Winner Winner x 1
    12. Jonno02
      Wishful

      Jonno02 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music / ETD
      My most recent visit to an ENT this month went like this:

      Me: I have tinnitus around 8 kHz and 11 kHz.
      Him: You'd be doing well at 11 kHz. You can't hear much over 8 kHz at all, and your tinnitus will be at 6 kHz.
      Me: My hearing threshold is 15.5 kHz and my tinnitus is not at 6 kHz, it's 8 kHz and 11 kHz.
      Him: And how would you know that?
      Me: I have an app on my phone to match the frequency to what I hear in my head.
      Him: Everybody has a degree of tinnitus anyway.
      Me: Not many people hear it 24/7, regardless of environment or what they're doing.
      Him: Wow, you really are worked up over this noise, aren't you?

      He then went off on a total tangent about nerve pain, didn't even try and bring it back to tinnitus and then basically said 'there's no cure for it anyway so bye bye.' If an ENT can't prescribe you an antibiotic or Sudafed, they're as useful as a chocolate teapot.

      My anecdotal conclusion from seeing 2 different ENTs who have basically acted the same? They're abso-bloody-lutely clueless about tinnitus and what's in the pipeline.
       
      • Agree Agree x 6
      • Like Like x 2
      • Hug Hug x 1
      • Funny Funny x 1
    13. Fightthearmy

      Fightthearmy Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      work-related
      Name and city?
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
      • Winner Winner x 1
    14. Joeseph Stope
      Innocent

      Joeseph Stope Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise? infection? negative stress? other?
      Correct me if I'm wrong (of course you will :(), but I had thought that they would locate the likely tone(s), or some of them, with the standard audiogram test. You know, the nurse plays the various beeps at steadily increasing volume and your task is to press the button immediately after you hear it. This audiogram will show a curve with a dip where the hearing loss is and this is a likely - maybe not 100% conclusive - indicator of the frequency of the tinnitus.

      This is just me surmising after being through a few audiograms and casual conversations with the personnel.
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    15. Nick47

      Nick47 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
      @Joeseph Stope, and what about people with normal audiogram?
       
    16. Jonno02
      Wishful

      Jonno02 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music / ETD
      A post on here did ask ‘how do they know the frequency of tinnitus in the test mice.’

      And someone asked Dr. Shore about multiple tones and her answer was ‘everybody has multiple tones.’

      With zero expertise to back this up, I feel like the device is more about training the brain to only hear real sounds rather than ‘this tone at 8,341 Hz is real so you can ignore the fake 8,341 Hz tone in your head.’ So a ‘fine’ audiogram might not be a problem.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    17. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      I think the device is about calming and desynchronizing the hyperactive fusiform cells. My understanding of this is that is actually decreases the tinnitus precept, not trick the brain into not focusing on it. The latter, as I understand it, is more along the lines of the Lenire philosophy.
       
      • Like Like x 3
      • Agree Agree x 1
    18. Joey72
      Approved

      Joey72 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      4/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I would think one or two of them would have some intellectual curiosity.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    19. ARN

      ARN Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      Since early memories
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Visual Snow Syndrome (VSS)
      Does anyone know if Dr. Shore's device will also be effective for visual snow syndrome (VSS) induced tinnitus, which apparently is caused neurologically? Despite this, at least one of my two tinnitus frequencies is somatic.
       
      • Hug Hug x 2
    20. Mandyyyyyyy

      Mandyyyyyyy Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise-induced
      I also saw two ENTs that were absolutely clueless and useless. Made me lose a bit of faith in doctors to be honest.

      I feel like I’ve learned more about tinnitus from these forums than from actual medical professionals.
       
      • Agree Agree x 7
      • Like Like x 1
      • Winner Winner x 1
    21. BuzzyBee
      Bookworm

      BuzzyBee Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Not Sure
      I am sorry you had to endure that conversation and waste an hour of your life with that person.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
      • Like Like x 1
    22. dj_newark

      dj_newark Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1990
      Yes, I've asked my audiologist about this from the Hearing and Tinnitus Center in Woodbury NY and this is what she's said:
      So, YES, there are some audiologists out there aware of these developments, that are interested in them and recommending them to people!
       
      • Like Like x 9
      • Winner Winner x 2
      • Informative Informative x 1
      • Useful Useful x 1
    23. BuzzyBee
      Bookworm

      BuzzyBee Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Not Sure
      Thank you for sharing that! I just hope it works for people with hearing loss. There's been so much back and forth as to whether it works for tinnitus associated with hearing loss or just somatic tinnitus. I have both, so maybe it will at least help. It seems that if the device is calming the DCN, then it shouldn't matter WHAT the cause of the tinnitus is/was. It just seems too good to be true at this point. My wish is that it works and the Shore team all become millionaires.
       
      • Like Like x 2
    24. Ken219
      Frustrated

      Ken219 Member

      Location:
      New York Area
      Tinnitus Since:
      Summer of 1990
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise exposure?
      @dj_newark, if you emailed the audiologist the question, she could have researched it first and then respond?
       
      • Like Like x 1
    25. EDDTEKK

      EDDTEKK Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      I am wondering how Dr. Shore could conduct a placebo group and Neuromod couldn't.

      Both are bimodal stimulation approaches. So why Neuromod hasn't done that with Lenire? By the way, there is not much news about Lenire... I know why...
       
    26. DeanD

      DeanD Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction
      Maybe Neuromod had an idea of what the result would be if they did.
       
    27. Nick47

      Nick47 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
      @EDDTEKK, they had little interest in the real outcomes and all interest in published outcomes.

      The masters of deception. No more credibility than those who post Dr. Obolonga cured my herpes tinnitus with this grated ancient worm poo.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Funny Funny x 1
    28. dj_newark

      dj_newark Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1990
      No, she's been talking about this for years. I've been going there since 2014.
       
      • Hug Hug x 2
    29. dj_newark

      dj_newark Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1990
      All tinnitus relates to hearing loss. The American hearing test only goes up to 8000 Hz, and human hearing extends way beyond that. You may not perceive yourself to have hearing loss. Hearing tests may not even show it. This is called 'hidden hearing loss'. Your brain is compensating for some lost inputs, that's how tinnitus starts.
       
      • Like Like x 3
      • Winner Winner x 1
    30. duesseldorf

      duesseldorf Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I think this has only been partly discussed here: Could we speculate how Dr. Shore's device will eventually apply to non-somatic patients (I mean how it could still work for them)?

      I used to be able to modulate my tones, but now they are rather constant, so I would likely not count as a somatic patient. This decreases my hope for it, and I need some hope.

      Also, what about "metallic" sounds like geiger counter sounds? Could they be included in the stimulus?
       
Loading...

Share This Page