New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

Discussion in 'Research News' started by Hudson, Jun 20, 2013.

    1. Momme

      Momme Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud noise?
      Will Dr. Shore's device benefit those of us with noise induced tinnitus? She said a while ago it might. Anyone else with more info?
       
    2. Tezcatlipoca
      Question it

      Tezcatlipoca Member

      Location:
      Mexico
      Tinnitus Since:
      June 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL
      I guess any research is better than no research.
       
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    3. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      Yep.

      giphy.gif
       
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    4. Still-Hope
      Dead

      Still-Hope Member Benefactor

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      JULY 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced. (working music for too long in Headphones)
      Lenire targets the trigeminal nerve through electrical stimulation of the tongue.

      If I've understood correctly, Dr. Shore's device stimulates the vagus nerve (in the neck).
       
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    5. Kam75

      Kam75 Member

      Location:
      FRANCE
      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced trauma in 2014 and 2019+ototoxic drug in 2020
      I really hope that Susan Shore's device will be commercialized and will help noise induced tinnitus and non-somatic tinnitus.

      I recently read an article written by one of the French tinnitus specialists. He said that neuromodulation might help us in the future.

      Lenire failed and has very serious side effects. Let's pray this will not be the case with Shore's device...
       
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    6. Christiaan
      Inspired

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      The Hague, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2016: headphones, 2020: worsened thanks to Rammstein
      Do you have a link to that article?
       
    7. Kam75

      Kam75 Member

      Location:
      FRANCE
      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced trauma in 2014 and 2019+ototoxic drug in 2020
      There you go (if you understand French):

      Dr Londero "Des avancées dans le traitement des acouphènes"

      At the end (in the last sentence) he says "An experiment conducted in the USA uses bimodal stimulation - acting on both the auditory and somatosensory systems - to treat tinnitus with very interesting results."

      I don't know if he's talking about Minnesota or Michigan device though and I don't know when the article was written exactly. It reads "3 décembre 0001" which is nonsense.

      I visited this specialist last year. His name is Dr. Alain Londero. In my case, he told me that I NEED to use antidepressants first before starting any therapy because according to him, depression makes tinnitus a LOT worse and prevents it from getting better.

      I don't want to try antidepressants for the moment as my tinnitus already got worse 6 months ago after taking anti-inflammatory drugs.

      A new worsening of my condition scares me a lot.
       
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    8. Tezcatlipoca
      Question it

      Tezcatlipoca Member

      Location:
      Mexico
      Tinnitus Since:
      June 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL
      Some guy said stimulating the vagus nerve can give you a rare condition, but I don't remember which one. Maybe trigeminal neuralgia? Is it true?
       
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    9. GBB

      GBB Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Virus / Microsuction / Acoustic Trauma
      It was probably @linearb. *rubs lamp*

      0Hki0gu.png
       
    10. Kam75

      Kam75 Member

      Location:
      FRANCE
      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced trauma in 2014 and 2019+ototoxic drug in 2020
      I personally know the woman who developed trigeminal neuralgia 6 days after using Lenire.

      I've talked about this several times on this forum to warn others.

      This woman was on Tinnitus Talk and even testified.

      That's why I'm afraid that Susan Shore's device could also cause us to develop this disease, also known as suicidal disease.

      Apparently Shore's device stimulates nerves other than Lenire.

      What guy said that stimulating the vagus nerve can cause trigeminal neuralgia?
       
    11. Christiaan
      Inspired

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      The Hague, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2016: headphones, 2020: worsened thanks to Rammstein
      Thanks for the link @Kam75. I've read Dr. Londero's remark that he follows the bimodal stimulation study with interest (presumably Shore's study, as they are more transparent in their methods and results), but what really caught my eye were his insights vis-à-vis the use of EEG (China study) to discriminate between tinnitus sufferers and non-tinnitus participants. This could have positive / practical implications (relatively easy to apply and low-cost in operations than developing a new measuring instrument) for researchers in accurately assessing tinnitus.
       
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    12. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      That sounds really interesting. Especially if it could be used to access severity as well.
       
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    13. Christiaan
      Inspired

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      The Hague, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2016: headphones, 2020: worsened thanks to Rammstein
      Did you send an email to Dr. Shore about this by any chance? She might have some insights about the implications of the use of the Michigan device concerning side effects.
       
    14. Christiaan
      Inspired

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      The Hague, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2016: headphones, 2020: worsened thanks to Rammstein
      I can't find the China study, but it seems that Dr. Londero has faith in the appliance of EEG to discern intrusive (severe?) tinnitus from mild tinnitus (text in bold). Perhaps @Kam75 can chip in to validate this point?

      ''Une autre étude, menée cette fois en Chine à partir de l’analyse d’enregistrements électrophysiologiques (EEG), va, elle aussi, dans le sens de la mise en évidence de marqueurs biologiques puisque les auteurs ont pu, grâce à une analyse poussée des données EEG, discriminer avec grande probabilité les patients qui ont un acouphène de ceux qui n’en ont pas. Ces avancées permettent d’objectiver la présence ou non d’un acouphène intrusif (aka: this development makes it possible to objectify the presence of intrusive vs. non-instrusive tinnitus) .''
       
    15. Kam75

      Kam75 Member

      Location:
      FRANCE
      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced trauma in 2014 and 2019+ototoxic drug in 2020
      No, I didn't ask Susan Shore. Very few people were selected to test her device compared to Lenire so we have little data.

      In the first phase of clinical trial, only 21 people were able to try the device, and none had any side effects, but this small number of people is not representative.

      On the other hand, even if her device can cause trigeminal neuralgia, she may not even know it herself.

      Indeed, when Alice (the woman who developed this terrible disease) told Neuromod about it, they simply answered that none of the participants in the clinical trials had developed this disease.

      So if by misfortune Shore's device should cause trigeminal neuralgia, maybe we won't know it until the device is on the market...
       
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    16. Tezcatlipoca
      Question it

      Tezcatlipoca Member

      Location:
      Mexico
      Tinnitus Since:
      June 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL
      Not sure. Did Alice get professionally diagnosed? Is there evidence that using Lenire caused it?
       
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    17. Kam75

      Kam75 Member

      Location:
      FRANCE
      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced trauma in 2014 and 2019+ototoxic drug in 2020
      From our discussions, it would seem so.

      I myself, long before she developed this disease, had wondered if Lenire could not cause this disease since this device stimulates nerves, including the famous trigeminal nerve.

      Nerves are very sensitive, and neuromodulation is a new method that we don't have much experience with.

      This is why I am very suspicious of all these devices.

      Like all of you, I would like to get better, but I am not ready to try anything and everything.
       
    18. KotaDomowa
      Dreaming

      KotaDomowa Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      Februar 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      2023 - maybe released...?
       
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    19. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 16 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      Do you know if she ever recovered?
       
    20. Kam75

      Kam75 Member

      Location:
      FRANCE
      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced trauma in 2014 and 2019+ototoxic drug in 2020
      Sadly, no. She suddenly stopped talking to me about a year ago.

      I know she was very unhappy about all these things that happened to her, she even talked to me about suicide once.

      Thanks to her Facebook profile, I know she is still alive because she is still active, but I would also love to know if she still has her trigeminal neuralgia.
       
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    21. ThomasRobert

      ThomasRobert Member Benefactor

      Location:
      ME
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic
      She already had nerve pain and issues before using Lenire. You can search here and see her posts related to the pain she had prior to Lenire.

      Attached for your reference.

      I also believe she was desperate about Lenire and did a full 3 hours in a row for the first few days.

      1848D4F6-6B25-410B-807B-E4756946B8F2.jpeg
       
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    22. Kam75

      Kam75 Member

      Location:
      FRANCE
      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced trauma in 2014 and 2019+ototoxic drug in 2020
      Indeed, she told me that she had pain in her tensor muscles, but is there a connection with trigeminal neuralgia?
      Did she tell you that she did a full 3 hours in a row? I don't remember she said that to me.
       
    23. Tezcatlipoca
      Question it

      Tezcatlipoca Member

      Location:
      Mexico
      Tinnitus Since:
      June 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL
      Well that is definitely suspicious. She already had nerve issues so a nerve condition presenting on her wasn't "sudden" then. Could it be that Lenire triggered it? We don't know, but it doesn't look like it to me.
       
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    24. ThomasRobert

      ThomasRobert Member Benefactor

      Location:
      ME
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic
      Proof is here also:

      78F53BF3-B0CE-4216-8A40-AC467B57392E.jpeg

      E68F86E8-3C28-4910-A0AA-45633675EC7F.jpeg
       
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    25. Kam75

      Kam75 Member

      Location:
      FRANCE
      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced trauma in 2014 and 2019+ototoxic drug in 2020
      Ah indeed she did write this. I had seen her publication though but I had forgotten this detail since that time.
      If I remember, according to one of her doctors, Lenire might have triggered it.

      But as neuromodulation is a new medication, no one really knows.

      It is possible that she was predisposed to develop trigeminal neuralgia. It is difficult to know for sure.
       
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    26. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 16 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      I just looked at this again and saw how it might be read that she did 3 days of 1 hour sessions (2 of 30 minute cycles) in a row, and then was going to break it up into two separate half hour sessions.
       
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    27. ThomasC
      Lonely

      ThomasC Member Benefactor

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      hearing loss
      If you're interested in Dr. Shore's treatment, maybe you should consider tDCS, especially if you live in Europe as it is much less expensive there than in the US.

      There is a new generation of tDCS devices that have been showing promising results for tinnitus treatment. There are ongoing studies. We will know more in the near future.
       
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    28. Kam75

      Kam75 Member

      Location:
      FRANCE
      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced trauma in 2014 and 2019+ototoxic drug in 2020
      Salut cher compatriote, where did you read that?
       
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    29. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      Looks like I may need to fire up the jealous girlfriend meme generator again soon... ;)
       
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    30. ThomasC
      Lonely

      ThomasC Member Benefactor

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      hearing loss
      Intensity, Duration, and Location of High-Definition Transcranial Direct Current Stimulation for Tinnitus Relief
      This is just one study. And the sample size is relatively small but as I said, there are other ongoing studies with larger sample sizes.
       
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