New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

Discussion in 'Research News' started by Hudson, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. Watch Hazel share good news about tinnitus
    1. kingsfan
      Mellow

      kingsfan Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Southern California
      Tinnitus Since:
      9-17-20 / 10-20-20 / 3-31-21 / 5-23-21
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      turning everything up to 11
      Hopefully they have a better loudness test than just pumping sound through headphones until it's as objectively loud as your tinnitus. Some may leave the exam with louder tinnitus.
       
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    2. InNeedOfHelp

      InNeedOfHelp Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      MRI Scan
      Good to know - thanks for the efforts. I hope this speeds things up by not having to build a distributor/retail network but becoming a standard treatment for tinnitus which can be initiated by an ENT. Downside for us in Europe that EMA approval might be required which is not spoken of as of yet...

      At least with the 400 people trial we get to know the subgroups that will likely benefit. Phase 1 had 12/20 patients (60%) benefitting.

      Let's hope medical devices are fastlaned in chip production land. The global shortage is not in our favor either.
       
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    3. Harder Calm
      Frustrated

      Harder Calm Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Stress/TMJ
      If I understood correctly, both by disturbed behavior (and being less distressed after treatment) as well as brain scans.
       
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    4. UKBloke

      UKBloke Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      I have a dominant high-pitch intrusive frequency plus barrage of other stuff. The barrage of other stuff I was habituated to for 25 years and it was honestly not problematic at all (habituation first time round took about 2-3 years).

      Pure speculation, but it may be the case that this device only needs to tackle a single dominant frequency for natural habituation to anything that may remain being much easier for people.
       
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    5. IntotheBlue03

      IntotheBlue03 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Cervical/TBD
      Hi all,

      I'm posting the lab clinician's response that I’m still trying to decipher as a layman.

      Please feel free to offer your input but at a least from what I gather it seems he was more confident that the focus on the DCN as the driver of tinnitus activity was more significant to benefiting users than the pitch match, tone or cause of tinnitus. Again I realize this was a very oversimplified response.

      1B24729F-79D3-4D9E-912C-53C4A7C8F4F2.png

      543F5A4D-BC2D-4974-B7E7-598EB42B3031.png
       
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    6. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 16 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      I've having trouble finding that data line in her study. All I see are aggregated data in the paper. Can you point me to the 60% benefitting citation?
       
    7. kingsfan
      Mellow

      kingsfan Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Southern California
      Tinnitus Since:
      9-17-20 / 10-20-20 / 3-31-21 / 5-23-21
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      turning everything up to 11
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    8. LGuapo

      LGuapo Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/12/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      As someone with a piercing tinnitus tone above 12 kHz, I'm disappointed that their device only goes that high. I appreciate that they're hopeful that it will help those with higher pitched tones, but the fact that they do tone matching at all tells me it's likely an important factor.

      I don't understand why they say producing tones above 12 kHz is difficult, though. In my experience in the audio field, producing low frequencies is much more of a challenge than high. I can understand why hearing aids don't function at high frequencies, since there is need for feedback and echo cancellation. But in this case, I'd think it would just be a straight forward case of sound generation.
       
    9. Mathew Gould

      Mathew Gould Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      6/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Neck/Jaw misalignment
    10. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 16 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      That was the only human trial other than the one that is ongoing.
       
    11. Mathew Gould

      Mathew Gould Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      6/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Neck/Jaw misalignment
      60% of people improving doesn't seem too promising to me. I thought almost everyone had their tinnitus reduced in half... I read that on here before.
       
    12. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 16 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      I guess we’ll find out in a few months. 60% is exactly 60% more than what we have now.

      That being said I’d love to see the individual results. Does anyone know where that info exists? It must be in a presentation somewhere. I mean it was only 20 folks, it could easily fit on a single scatter plot.

      I wonder if that 60% represents those with statistically significant reduction but maybe smaller improvements were evident in others.

      I thought having read through the paper that the 12 dB reeducation was an average across the groups. Does that mean that 40% had no reduction but those that did respond have an even greater than 12 dB response?

      In the end this is all just conjecture to pass the time until we get some real answers later this year.
       
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    13. Survivor234
      Hurting

      Survivor234 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise-induced/Headphones
      You should note that whether you get any sort of reduction or not depends on the amount of time you spend using the device. For some, they see results immediately after using it while, for others, it takes several weeks. The trial in question was only for four weeks. This new trial I believe goes up to six weeks of use.

      I think that, considering the variance in the amount of time you need to use the device, it is possible that it takes some time for your neurons to be reset. And the amount of time may differ depending on each individual's tinnitus, age, pitch, etc.
       
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    14. IntotheBlue03

      IntotheBlue03 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Cervical/TBD
      Hi all,

      For those well versed in the science, do any of you know if “somatic” tinnitus also accounts for neurological based tinnitus (autoimmune like MS, noise induced)? I believe I had seen the stat somewhere on the boards that referenced 80% of tinnitus sufferers can modulate somatically, so I’d assume that could include some neurological sufferers as well for this device?

      @Survivor234, correct me if I’m wrong but I thought you had inquired about this for users who are noise induced/neurological but cannot modulate their tinnitus?

      Again I know all this is speculation just looking for insight from folks for questions that linger in a tortured mind.
       
    15. Bjjwal

      Bjjwal Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      This is already starting to sound like Lenire 2.0...
       
    16. NYCGuy
      Wishful

      NYCGuy Member Benefactor

      Location:
      NY
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Neck, Jaw or Stress, who knows.
      Please don't compare Susan Shore to Lenire. Susan has been studying tinnitus for 20 years and she is really trying to helps us. Lenire only cares about making money, they didn't even do a real clinical trial like Susan Shore is doing.
       
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    17. Bjjwal

      Bjjwal Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I'm not saying that Susan Shore isn't trying to help people. The fact that she responds to people's emails so quickly shows to me that she does care.

      But seriously, how many million dollars in funding and the best we can get is a 20 person study with only 11 showing ANY improvement? That doesn't sound any better than Lenire's numbers.

      I really hope that Shore has been able to refine the efficacy of her device over the last few years, otherwise I see the crash of a huge hype train and a lot of disappointed people.
       
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    18. Bjjwal

      Bjjwal Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      This is what I thought as well.
       
    19. kingsfan
      Mellow

      kingsfan Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Southern California
      Tinnitus Since:
      9-17-20 / 10-20-20 / 3-31-21 / 5-23-21
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      turning everything up to 11
      Well it's 65% if that helps.
       
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    20. NYCGuy
      Wishful

      NYCGuy Member Benefactor

      Location:
      NY
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Neck, Jaw or Stress, who knows.
      A clinical trial is going on at the moment with 400 participants, source:

      Reversing Synchronized Brain Circuits With Targeted Auditory-Somatosensory Stimulation to Treat Phantom Percepts
       
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    21. Bjjwal

      Bjjwal Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
    22. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      IMHO, the small sample-size is one reason why I would not join those who already claimed matter-of-factly that this thing was already proven to work. This new trial should be much more definitive.
       
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    23. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      As learned through Lenire, the most important factor is what constitutes "improvement". If it's barely "statistically significant" then it's little better than placebo.
       
    24. OptimusPrimed
      Spaced

      OptimusPrimed Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma - Repeated gun blasts
      While you're not entirely wrong; we don't have any other options right now so barely statistically significant is better than nothing.

      Electrical stimulation is the most effective treatment for tinnitus to date, be it cochlear implantation or iterative electrical stimulation. I see this device as in the iterative category and it could bring some relief.
       
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    25. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 16 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      And with Lenire the lack of a control makes the whole question of change beyond placebo impossible to discern.
       
    26. PeterPan
      Nerdy

      PeterPan Member Advocate

      Location:
      Sydney
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Heat Exhaustion
      Neuromod have stated that 86% of participants who undertook the treatment in their trial saw an improvement. This stat only has meaning if all the participants in this 86% had a significant difference from a control that was above the MCID for the scale they used (which they didn't) and there was a control (which there wasn't!, or at least there wasn't an arm which they stated was a control in advance).

      MCID - Minimal clinically important difference
       
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