Tinnitus Retraining Therapy

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by Jim, Mar 11, 2011.

    1. bobvann
      Cheeky

      bobvann Member

      Location:
      Inside the vortex
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud shit
      I thought I did not have anyone who did it properly as well. I found a therapist that does. I am covered under my wife's plan so really nothing to lose. She stated in an email that depending on level of hearing loss hearing aids may not be necessary. There is a trial period if we choose to go down that road.
       
    2. serendipity1996
      No Mood

      serendipity1996 Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown but suspect noise-induced
      Ugh - the audiologist who runs the Hearing Loss Help website, Dr. Neil Bauman, wrote an article on reactive tinnitus - he stated reactive tinnitus and hyperacusis are essentially psychosomatic conditions and was incredibly dismissive of some in the comment section.

      "You don’t understand what this article is saying. I think you’ve read too much on the negative on-line boards so have closed your mind to the reality of what you have to do in order to gain control over your reactive tinnitus. You want somebody to do something to you (like the FX-322 or Hough) rather than somebody help you to do what you alone need to do in order to reprogram your brain so neither tinnitus nor hyperacusis are a problem anymore."​

      These kinds of statements honestly disgust me - the victim-blaming is on full display here. Would you tell someone with cancer that they just have to 'reprogram your brain' to overcome it? And what's wrong with wanting a treatment?

      Also states this:

      "When you hang out on boards like tinnitustalk and others, you will typically find a preponderance of people who are not successfully dealing with their tinnitus–so they bellyache and moan–and everyone reading these boards thinks that nothing can be done."​

      It's funny because this guy has hearing loss himself but clearly is lacking in empathy. According to his bio, he presents at conferences on a national and international level. It's scary that someone who holds sufferers in such contempt wields such influence.
       
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    3. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
      Dr. Neil Bauman is a quack.

      He is NOT an audiologist.

      Dr. Neil Bauman earned several degrees in fields ranging from forestry to ancient astronomy (Ph.D.) and theology (Th.D.). Later, he trained as a hearing loss coping skills specialist.

      Source is his website.
       
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    4. serendipity1996
      No Mood

      serendipity1996 Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown but suspect noise-induced
      Oh man, apologies - I think I was just so annoyed that in my haste I overlooked that. Thanks for correcting. Still disappointing that he propagates such harmful views.
       
    5. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      Interesting post @ajc, although I've never heard of Dr. Neil Bauman. Perhaps he's another one that's hoping to impress those that don't know better. Armed with a Ph.D and a trained hearing loss specialist, makes him think he's a tinnitus expert. If he doesn't have the condition then he's definitely a quack, because he'll have no knowledge of what it's like to live with it. I believe if one is going into practice to help people with tinnitus, they have to have it.
       
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    6. Zugzug

      Zugzug Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Autoimmune hyperacusis from Sjogren's Syndrome
      Neil Bauman is a fraud made in a factory. I love the moment when "experts" are dealing with cognitive dissonance and they make it go away by saying that the sufferers are crazy.

      It's nuts how searchable this clown is. I remember googling things and his name came up very quickly like he had some major credibility. It really is unbelievable.
       
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    7. T Toledo OH

      T Toledo OH Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2/26/20
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Likely loud noise and earbuds
      Dr. Neil Bauman claims pretty much every med is ototoxic and scares people away from taking things that can help them cope.
       
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    8. jimmiii

      jimmiii Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unkown
      I just enquired for Tinnitus Retraining Therapy in Ontario, Canada at chs.ca.

      They told cost of equipment would be $3000 for each ear and $150/session for the therapy stretched in 18-24 months for 6 sessions.

      Is this any good?

      Thanks.
       
    9. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      Six therapy sessions over 18 to 24 months is not enough. I have had the full TRT treatment twice. Wearing two white noise generators. The treatment lasted two years. I had regular counselling with my Hearing Therapist lasting a minimum of 1 hour, once every 2 weeks for around 4 months then extended to once a month.

      TRT or CBT cannot do all the work. A person has to try and help themselves by reinforcing positivity. This is achieved by engaging in the things they like to do. This may not be easy at first so take things slowly. If you start a tinnitus treatment, my advice is to keep away from tinnitus forums and don't discuss the treatment you are having in them. The reason being, some people believe no tinnitus treatment can help unless it's a cure for the condition. This type of mindset can hinder or prevent you responding to whatever tinnitus therapy you're having with your Audiologist.

      Please click on the links follow link that explain more about TRT:
      What Is TRT and When Should It Be Started? | Tinnitus Talk Support Forum

      Michael
       
    10. Koz
      Dreaming

      Koz Member

      Location:
      North East England
      Tinnitus Since:
      2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unilateral sensorineural hearing loss
      I really hope the message gets across to him how useless and counterproductive he's been to the tinnitus community. It's all well and good people complain about it on here but I wish somehow people let him know themselves.

      Spending money and working on changing "perceptual awareness" is not a fucking treatment, its an expensive coping mechanism that doesn't 100% work for everyone and tests your resilience on the bad days. Money well spent huh.
       
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    11. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      He wouldn't be receptive to it. He blames the sufferer if they don't get better on his treatment.
       
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    12. Koz
      Dreaming

      Koz Member

      Location:
      North East England
      Tinnitus Since:
      2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unilateral sensorineural hearing loss
      I read one of his interviews and the categories he puts certain tinnitus patients under and it just screams - wow, you really underestimate and undersell the suffering of those who have severe cases of this, don't you?

      Sounds like he needs a good slap, he'd be quite receptive to it I think. I blame my hand.
       
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    13. Jrblovsky

      Jrblovsky Member

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      Christmas 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NOISE/Menieres Who knows
      I'm sure he doesn't give a shit. It has made him millions.
       
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    14. Zugzug

      Zugzug Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Autoimmune hyperacusis from Sjogren's Syndrome
      He's a narcissist. In an interview, he said that the only people that TRT doesn't work for are people who like the attention of being disabled or have financial interests to not get better, such as maintaining disability (which btw, is a joke since hyperacusis and tinnitus are impossible to get approved for).

      I promise you that he views you and I as crazies on a medical forum enabling each other. Just gross, to be honest.
       
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    15. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
    16. Shizune
      Wishful

      Shizune Member

      Location:
      The bell tower
      Tinnitus Since:
      H: 6/2020 T: 7/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Chemical exposure, made worse with benzo withdrawal(??)
      Bit of a morbid and tasteless question but when he finally kicks the bucket, will his reign end? I assume his wife would be next in line. But with them both gone would we finally see some progress? Or is his ideology just going to be regurgitated until the ends of time? I've heard the stuff about him controlling audiology grants and all that. Genuinely curious.
      Disgusting. If he walked even 2 steps in our shoes, he'd see that nobody wants to live this way. And what "attention" is he even on about? Other than being impossible to get disability, the whole world already laughs at us and treats us like lunatics. There is no "attention" to be received.
       
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    17. Zugzug

      Zugzug Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Autoimmune hyperacusis from Sjogren's Syndrome
      That's such an odd video. Like at the beginning, it's not really that bad, he's just talking about his approach to tinnitus in the 80s. Then it becomes insane very quickly when he suggests that the only people that TRT doesn't work for are basically people who don't want to get better. Like what?!?!

      My god, even something like Ibuprofen, which is like the go-to drug for a headache, doesn't have a 100% full-proof success rate. He even made a point to say that it doesn't even matter the cause. It always works.

      That interview became batshit insane so fast; I remember it shocked me the first time I watched it.
       
    18. Jrblovsky

      Jrblovsky Member

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      Christmas 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NOISE/Menieres Who knows
      You have to remember these people don't care. Look at Agent Orange that was used in Vietnam. It was "safe" too. So many vets have died from it. None of these drugs are safe. However I would take anything that would help at this point. One reason being is I honestly don't care either. This noise has ruined my life.
       
    19. serendipity1996
      No Mood

      serendipity1996 Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown but suspect noise-induced
      What planet is he on where he thinks that people are living a life of luxury on disability payments?!
       
    20. Jcmc

      Jcmc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Very Loud Headphones!
      We need to stop this, we need to go to the news, we need to do something.
       
    21. Zugzug

      Zugzug Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Autoimmune hyperacusis from Sjogren's Syndrome
      He also invokes a mega straw man and says that the person could be suing their employer for large sums of money. Who the hell thinks in that way? And let's say there was one nefarious person doing this. How does that possibly come up as a central talking point?
       
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    22. DaveFromChicago

      DaveFromChicago Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu
      I've commented on this video before.

      To Shizune:

      I agree entirely.

      Can you f***ing imagine going to see this guy?

      His unconditional, absolutist demeanor (let's just call it pig-headed) would prompt me to flee the building.

      What disgracefully specious conclusions he draws regarding his example of the kitchen refrigerator hum.

      The refrigerator sound is easy to ignore because it is very low volume, not really unpleasant, and to eliminate it you have only to leave the room.

      I have never encountered anyone who would to any degree fit his description of "Flag Wavers", i.e. those who refuse to improve their attitude to this so that they can garner attention.

      Also, he comments about those who want to maintain this for a financial settlement. If you offered me $5 mil or the permanent elimination of this, I would (I kid you not) take the latter.

      When he mentions Xanax, he talks about a huge, potentially lethal dosage that no physician would prescribe.

      I wanted to laugh out loud when at the end he said that regarding other clinical trials there should be "more stringent methods for the evaluation of clinical outcomes"; I would impress upon him the real need to apply this to his own TRT.

      It apparently never occurs to him that I have seen a number of ENT Doctors, and none have ever recommended TRT.

      In fact, just out of curiosity I Googled TRT in Chicago, and in the entire Metropolitan area there was only one practitioner in Highland Park, which is a totally out-of-sight wealthy North Shore suburb. It is hard to get to and I can only imagine the infarction I would have when I was quoted the total cost.
       
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    23. serendipity1996
      No Mood

      serendipity1996 Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown but suspect noise-induced
      These people honestly make me sick - how delusional and arrogant do you have to be to believe that people enjoy being chronically ill.

      It's a similar situation with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/ME - I don't have any personal connections with this condition but for decades research funds have been funnelled into psychological treatments. Research and funding is essentially controlled by a group of "biopsychosocial" proponents who champion CBT and graded exercise therapy (GET) which has now been proven to be harmful to sufferers (as post-exertional malaise is a core feature of the condition). The NHS guidelines in the UK have only very recently been updated to reflect that. This group of researchers talk about how "illness beliefs" serve to perpetuate the condition, which is essentially just victim-blaming.

      There's a professor from Berkeley called David Tuller who has exposed these guys and continues to do so. I feel like we need someone similar for tinnitus and hyperacusis lol.
       
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    24. Zugzug

      Zugzug Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Autoimmune hyperacusis from Sjogren's Syndrome
      I felt exactly the same way. There's no amount of money that I would trade in exchange for becoming a completely healthy 30 year old with zero chronic illness or hyperacusis.
       
    25. Guywithapug
      Dreaming

      Guywithapug Member

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      October 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      SSHL
      Agreed. Money is nothing more than ink printed on special paper. Our health however is priceless.
       
    26. DaveFromChicago

      DaveFromChicago Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu
      To jimmiii:

      If TRT is $3,000 per ear and involves 6 sessions, do we then have the following costs:

      $3,000 per ear x 2 = $6,000
      6 sessions @ $150 each = $900
      TOTAL: $6,900

      This is utterly outrageous - what percentage of the population has this kind of discretionary income, especially when no tinnitus reduction is offered and you are the one blamed if you don't "get it"?

      I dropped $5,269.00 on that useless Desyncra (who incidentally are no longer in business) and I am determined not to throw good money after bad, which is why I am also very skeptical as well about Lenire's overpriced $3,000 fee for at best no more than a 15% reduction on some sort of factitious Irritability Index.

      As someone on Tinnitus Talk mentioned, there are various electrical stimulation devices on Amazon that sell for only $79.99; all of these current and past "therapies" are merely ruses to financially gouge us by taking unscrupulous advantage our our desperation.
       
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    27. Angela Bedford

      Angela Bedford Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      August 2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Lots of stress
      Hi,

      Quick summary of my experience:

      In mid August 2020, I fell and banged my head in the concrete very hard. Doctors found nothing wrong except concussion, and I felt okay until I went for work 4 days after. I am an engineer and went to a process area. The noise there was very high frequency, but not high enough for us to use ear protection. Perhaps borderline.

      By the end of the first day, I could hear that I had hyperacusis and tinnitus in the same left side as I fell on. I had MRI and went to an ENT 10 days later. The ENT found that my ear drum was a bit bruised, but I still do not know exactly what happened, and what is wrong inside my ear. I think the bruised drum perhaps was not able to protect middle ear, so something was bruised or damaged. My hearing is well on both sides, no significant loss. I can hear up to 13000 Hz.

      Through the fall it has been going up and down, but it never went away.

      I started TRT beginning of February 2021. I found a clinic which provides treatment.
      The first thing the Audiologist did was to set my noise generators to a very low level. Hyperacusis will be treated first. It is so low I have to be in a very silent place to hear the noise. She said they had experiencef issues before when they started giving the patient higher noise, so to be safe they started very low. After 2 weeks I noticed that my tinnitus became significantly lower. So low that some evenings after shower it was completely quiet. Then after 2 weeks she told me to keep same level, but she wanter me to listen to my favorite music actively for 30 minutes every day. After the 2 and 3 week, I was supposed to increase the volume, and by the last week, lower it down to as it was the first week. That is where I am now.

      My tinnitus has increased again after I started to listen to the music, so it becomes frustrating. I have a new appointment on Tuesday, so then I will find out what the next step is. I use the generators all day from the time I get up and until I go to bed. At least 16 hours. I use soothing sounds during night with my app.

      In parallel with this I have gone through two appointments with therapy with another doctor, who provides the therapy part of the TRT.

      Since you have gone through this, I thought perhaps I could ask for advice.

      In you experience, is it normal that tinnitus can fluctuate during the hyperacusis treatment?

      My hyperacusis is at the same level, but can some days be worse than others. I notice strong correlation between the frequency/level of tinnitus and the hyperacusis. Those days that the hyperacusis seems very sensitive, as if I have a "glass ear", then the tinnitus is at higher pitch.

      Thank you for any experience you can provide.

      I understand that I am very early in the treatment, but it would be nice to know if this is similar to other treatments any of you have gone through.

      Best regards,
      Andy
       
    28. bobvann
      Cheeky

      bobvann Member

      Location:
      Inside the vortex
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud shit
      I am doing TRT with an audiologist that was trained by Jastreboff. Let's just say that someone who considers himself a TRT "expert" is spreading a lot of falsehoods.
       
    29. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      It is fine to call my name @bobvann and I won't take offence as you have always been respectful towards me. I do not consider myself an expert in TRT but am experienced with the treatment as I have had it twice with good results. Each treatment lasted 2 years. I also counsel people with tinnitus periodically which is the most important part of TRT, although wearing the white noise generators is essential too for the treatment to be of benefit. This needs to be backed up with reinforcing positivity by the patient, as the treatment cannot do all the work.

      All the best
      Michael
       
    30. bobvann
      Cheeky

      bobvann Member

      Location:
      Inside the vortex
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud shit
      Ok since you are willing to be respectful, I am as well. You may have noticed I have stayed away from forums for a while while engaging in TRT once again.

      I know you will strongly disagree with what I am about to post and that's ok.

      Since I do not suffer from severe hearing loss, the Audiologist who is certified in TRT stated I did not need to purchase hearing aids or WNGs. They just had me purchase bone conducting headphones (they are crap for audio) for sound enrichment. Leaving the ear canals unobstructed.

      I did bring up what you had said & concerns with not using WNGs.

      Bone conductors, ear buds, headphones are actually part of the devices suggested in the TRT slideshow.

      I have been using them for over 3 months. Just like with hearing aids in the past, it is not really doing all that much but have not worsen my baseline either.

      As for possibly playing drums again one day she contacted several tinnitus colleagues including Jastreboff who responded that I should be eventually be able to.

      I am not stupid. I would not attempt it at this stage.

      I am also going to be meeting with a clinical counselor / psychotherapist she has recommended for additional support.

      We shall see how it goes.

      This is from as you say a professional certified hearing therapist.
       
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