Vitamin Supplement (Nicotinamide Riboside) Successfully Prevents Noise-Induced Hearing Loss

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by exodus, Dec 2, 2014.

    1. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, possibly medication
      I found a thread in another forum where they mentioned that intravenous NAD helped six people to withdraw from benzos, some cold turkey, without symptoms. It seems NAD acts on glutamate as well. I ordered a bottle of NR and resveratrol. The noise is killing me, I'm tortured 24/7. Pills won't be as effective as IV I guess but I'll try.
       
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    2. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
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    3. DaveFromChicago

      DaveFromChicago Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu
      I tried Nicotinamide Riboside and it had as little effect as all of the other 30 or so supplements that I also tried.
       
    4. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, possibly medication
      It worked for a few people on the thread, 3 or 4 I think. I'll try it, I'm at the end of my rope. I tried many supplements without luck so far.
       
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    5. Lane

      Lane Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic Drug
      @Chinmoku -- Would you happen to have a link to that thread? @Star64 -- Sorry to hear how difficult things are for you. If you give this a try, I hope it works for you!
       
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    6. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, possibly medication
      I saw it on benzobuddies but there is a thread here too
      https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/reduced-tinnitus-with-intravenous-nad-brain-reboot.34132/
      Edit BB thread
      http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=237713.0
      @Star64, maybe the IV treatment is overkill but oral supplement could be worth a shot. Works on glutamate and can work both on tinnitus and withdrawal. I'm trying. If I don't find anything i won't survive this summer
       
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    7. vttbx

      vttbx Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2001
      I tried one NAD IV for my tinnitus, and it did nothing. It was a terrible experience that I would never do again. I had a 250mg IV, which was the smallest dosage available. It was given as a slow drip taking about 2.5 hours. I knew that it would be uncomfortable, as most people have reported. I felt immediate discomfort, including nausea and light-headedness. It didn't matter how slow they made the drip. Afterward, I had a 48 hr period of stomach cramps. I'm shocked at how common it's being offered in new age medicine clinics. Don't waste your money.
       
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    8. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, possibly medication
      Thank you, this is a very important testimony.
      Do you think that oral NR could help instead? I'm withdrawing from a benzo and at the same time my tinnitus has reached unbearable levels. I desperately need something to take the edge off the tinnitus. Reading the thread, @Heinrich_S7 seemed to have results after 3 months of supplementation, @Donald King seems to have had results in three days but at a massive dose (he registered the same day he posted this spectacular result and apparently made only that post in the forum), others like @FGG seem to have had a 50% reduction, which looks very promising, and you, @vttbx, seem to have had success with this. It's one of my last hopes, then I don't know what will happen to me, I can't go on like this, I simply can't.
      What is encouraging is the glutamate angle, in that it could help both with benzo withdrawal and with tinnitus.
       
    9. Lane

      Lane Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic Drug
      Hi @Chinmoku -- The following is a link to a post I made, which touches on some of the things that have helped me "take the edge off". Perhaps there's something in there that will catch your interest. -- All the Best...

      Benzodiazepine Withdrawal — SEVERE Hyperacusis
       
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    10. vttbx

      vttbx Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2001
      I think oral NR is worth trying for tinnitus, but I have no idea if it will help your benzo withdrawal. I would start with 100mg caps. Life Extension makes a 100mg that I'm taking now. Or, you can go with the big players in the NR field: TruNiagen, and Basis. It's not a cheap supplement either way you go.

      Just curious. Have you checked out Reddit yet? If not, you may want to look into it as they have a very active benzo sub (forum).

      https://www.reddit.com/r/benzodiazepines/
       
    11. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, possibly medication
      Thank you, I'll check it out.
      From this thread in BenzoBuddies, linking to a paper, they hypothesized that NAD+ can help with glutamate receptors.

      There is also a user here in Tinnitus Talk who claims he benefited from IV NAD+ for tinnitus. For sure the dosage and diffusion would be much stronger with IV than pills.

      Do you have an hypothesis on why NR pills helped you but IV NAD+ didn't? I found two clinics that do that in London. It's affordable but a little expensive. Given your experience I'll start with oral NR.
       
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    12. vttbx

      vttbx Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2001
      Only NR has been shown to have some effect on hearing even though the study was done on mice (see the OP). Dr. Peter Attia is well known in the anti-aging world and once answered a question about the NAD IV method. I remember him saying that although a NAD IV goes directly into your blood, NAD can't actually enter your cells through the blood.
       
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    13. Star64
      Kick ass

      Star64 Member

      Location:
      Melbourne Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      I have heard of this treatment before and I did read this article a while back which claims improvement for some people https://www.fda.gov/media/113016/download

      Then I have read other articles like this https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ven-infusion-treatments-to-desperate-patients

      The addiction specialist that helped me withdraw from benzos told me there is no easy way to get relief from withdrawal, it is only time that will help heal you. He said he could not recommend this therapy.

      I am sorry to say but so far I believe that to be true, after all the stories I have read it can take many months after ceasing the drug to feel better, for some it is years.

      I do not take any medications now, only some vitamins. I feel for you and I fully understand that you are searching for something to give you relief, I hope something works for you, but please be careful with whatever you try. :huganimation::huganimation:
       
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    14. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, possibly medication
      Ok my bottle arrived earlier than expected this morning. I took 2 pills (300mg total) as I read in the evening it can affect sleep. I also took transresveratrol 125mg. Now my ears are screaming even more than usual and headphones masking doesn't work. Usually my right ear is much quieter but now it has gone up almost to the same level as the left one. Two questions for people in the know

      1. How long after ingestion should NR show an effect?

      2. Anyone whose tinnitus benefited from this has noticed a worsening before improvements?

      Thanks
       
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    15. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I don't know the answer to 1). I don't remember how long it took to notice an effect.

      NR did not appear to make mine worse but I started at 150mg and waited a week or two before I went up.
       
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    16. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing and now somatic T dental work
      @Chinmoku New university research studies concludes that there's only one gateway to the brain that causes tinnitus regardless of cause. BUT all don't have the same chemical imbalances, which does depends on the individual. Supplements only help if there's a lack of - or if there's an emotional physical aspect. In your situation, nootropics may not help to say the least. No proven studies. If there was, there would be more real science recommendations, not just from supplement spin manufacturers and internet sites that write articles for profit. Magnesium is one supplement that all need to take with tinnitus. From the research pharm guys that I talked with your case as to what happened, it's now about what chemicals not to use. You know to keep salt low, but artificial sugars is also a negative. A total natural non chemical diet should help.
       
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    17. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, possibly medication
      Wise as usual, Greg. I'm taking magnesium. I did look at a few papers on NR. There is evidence that it helped hearing in rats. Also, at the right dose NAD seems to be neuroprotective.

      https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fncel.2017.00021/full

      It also slows down over excited neurons.
      An excerpt:

      (...) Consistent with these observations, we found that the latency of the first postsynaptic spike triggered by high-frequency train stimulation of presynaptic afferents (i.e., the auditory nerve) was prolonged by NAD+. These results collectively indicate that NAD+ suppresses presynaptic transmitter release and postsynaptic excitability, jointly weakening excitatory neurotransmission. Our findings provide a basis for the exploration of NAD+ for the prevention and treatment of bilirubin encephalopathy and excitotoxicity associated with other neurological disorders.

      I was hoping that NR could also help with my suspected clonazepam tolerance.

      For the record 6 hours after the 300mg the spiking has subsided. I had a window of 2h at hours 4-5 where I could stand the tinnitus without masking, despite the spiking. It's very strange. For sure this supplement is doing something. I was taking it also based on the purely anecdotal success of other forum members. However I agree that more research is desperately needed. The problem is that I cannot sit still, I'm suffering too much, these are my last shots.
       
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    18. all to gain
      No Mood

      all to gain Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      -
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      -
      Can anyone shed light on this video @FGG @Chinmoku?

      Why You Should Be Careful With Niacin and...


      Thorne seems to agree (based on my very limited knowledge) and add Betaine Anhydrous (Trimethylglycine) to their ResveraCel - https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/resveracel

      Should I/we be doing the same?

      But I see Thorne's product contains Trans-Resveratrol, which I think @FGG said was in some way counterproductive for tinnitus/hearing.
      What's the specific reason for this? Any particular type and dosage? Would soaking in Epsom salts a few times per week do the job?
       
    19. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, possibly medication
      Good find. Not sure what to think anymore.
      I have 150mg capsule, maybe I can water titrate dissolving their content in water and using a syringe to underdose. Clearly if they exert excessive lowering of excitatory neurotransmitters they can make you depressed. What a mess. I hate this condition.

      Edit: earlier in this thread you find Donald King who ingested an insane amount of NR and his tinnitus went away after 35 years. I don't know what to make of it as that was his only post in the forum. Undermethylation should have hit him hard according to this video.
       
    20. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I'm a bit skeptical of at least some of this video's claims because he recommended a specific product. He didn't just say "maybe try a powdered supplement", he went into great detail of how to use a specific low dose brand of NR. I looked this guy up and he has his own website and promotes his own supplements.

      https://chris-masterjohn-phd.myshopify.com/products/how-to-banish-any-deficiency-from-your-body-1

      He also suspiciously adds a warning about "when you take 2000mg a day of NR" which is higher than really anyone takes.

      I found this study on safety of the supplement, which concludes it is safe up to 1000mg/day (he could be right about problems with a 2000mg/day dose in that case but again it seemed a bit spurious the way it was presented)

      https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-46120-z

      I'm also not aware of any daily recommended amount of NR (and couldn't find a link to any) which wouldn't really make sense if they didn't break it down by age because it varies considerably depending on age. There is a daily recommended Niacin recommendation, however, and I'm sure if he's trying to conflate the two which behave very differently in the body.

      That being said, I agree with him about one thing. Certain genes (he gave the example of the MTHFR gene) certainly influence how supplements and drugs are handled in an individual. It is always a good idea to start slow with anything and stop if you feel worse. Most people (the vast majority) for instance tolerate turmeric well but if you have mutations in your MAO genes, however, you might not. It makes all of this really complex.

      As far as Resveratrol, it can affect serotonin levels at high doses which I'm now a bit iffy on personally. At lower doses, it's probably fine and even beneficial but I wouldn't know what an optimal dose is. I took some briefly but don't anymore. It didn't seem to make a difference either way for me.

      I still take NR at a dose of 150mg to 300mg a day. I have been doing it for at least 6 months with no noticeable change in mood that he talked about. I did have my genome run through promethease and I know my MTHFR, COMT (which influences Dopamine), and MAO genetics, etc. That's honestly probably helpful for everyone to know in general.
       
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    21. all to gain
      No Mood

      all to gain Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      -
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      -
      Anyone that makes one post and then disappears should be treated as i) a troll or ii) someone trying to sell a product or iii) a strange one-time poster or iv) is no longer with us.
       
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    22. all to gain
      No Mood

      all to gain Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      -
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      -
      Yeah, see I thought immediately that this guy is trying to sell something, but then I saw that Thorne does kind of back him up, but, hey, they are also trying to sell something.

      I was taking just 100 mg a day, then 200 mg, then 300 mg, then 400 mg. When I got to 300-400 I had to 'find' my tinnitus on one day, but it may have been coincidence. I stopped though as I started getting headaches at that dose, and I watched that video.

      I will probably start up again and stay at 100-150 mg. No idea if it would do anything at that dose or whether I am just throwing my money away.
       
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    23. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      It made a difference for me but it was pretty early when I started so I can't say for absolute sure it was the NR but it really did seem to help.

      That's amazing you got such a good response, hopefully you can find a dose that works for you.
       
    24. all to gain
      No Mood

      all to gain Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      -
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      -
      I found this on Thorne's website:

      Why It's Important to Methylate While Taking Nicotinamide Riboside[/URL
       
    25. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Funnily enough this was in that article:

      "This study also showed a decrease in the detoxification of two neurotransmitters. Unlike the niacinamide study, a study of nicotinamide riboside detected no increase in homocysteine after NR dosing. These inconsistent results might be due to genetic SNPs in susceptible individuals, which was not tested in either study."

      So no increase in homocysteine with NR which actually argues against the methylation problem with NR versus other forms at least among people without MTHFR mutations (these are the genetic SNPs they reference).
       
    26. all to gain
      No Mood

      all to gain Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      -
      Cause of Tinnitus:
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      OK, so I'm out of my depth. But why then do Thorne add Betaine Anhydrous (Trimethylglycine)?
       
    27. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Dunno. It almost sounds like they are saying "in case you have an MTHFR mutation" which is higher in some ethnic groups than others.
       
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    28. Dash

      Dash Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown possibly Ear syringing
      Did you get NR from ChromaDex? Also how is it going? Hope you're doing well.
       
    29. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, possibly medication
      I got the Truniagen brand. I had to stop it temporarily for some blood tests but I'm starting again today. Unfortunately I'm doing quite poorly (euphemism)
       
    30. all to gain
      No Mood

      all to gain Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
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      Cause of Tinnitus:
      -
      I have now seen this article:

      https://www.news-medical.net/health/Do-NAD-Boosters-Help-You-to-Live-Longer.aspx

      "Although NAD boosters are claimed to be safe for humans, it has been found that repeated intake of it can increase the total cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein (LDL)-cholesterol levels in the blood. Moreover, studies have indicated that increased expression of NAMPT (a major NAD+-producing enzyme) is associated with an increased risk of developing potentially fatal brain tumors (glioblastoma). NAMPT promotes rapid tumor growth by increasing the release of inflammatory and oncogenic molecules."

      What do you think? (and @Chinmoku)
       
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