Why Can't They Just Surgically Remove the Ear and Everything Else?

I read an article about people who killed themselves because of intractable hyperacusis. I mean, can't they just surgically make people deaf?

 

It does not help.
Tinnitus and hyperacusis are related to brain neuron (not ears).

 

I read here cutting the auditory nerve is a thing. But it's a crap shoot whether it'll help or make it worse.

 

because Tinnitus is a brain disease in my opinion. I think of it actually as brain damage. I have dark eye floaters and I appear to be getting visual snow, but it only appears in the night.

 

Cutting the auditory nerve will make you deaf and you will still hear the tinnitus because it is coming from the brain. Count yourself fortunate that you can hear as you can use sound enrichment, to help distract you from the tinnitus noise. At another forum I visit, someone that has been deaf from birth, hears loud tinnitus and is unable to use sound enrichment as he wouldn't be able to hear it.

Michael

 

In my case, that's gotta be nonsense. EXTERNAL SOUNDS are directly causing everything. Whenever it's quiet, I'm basically fine.

 

cutting the audiotory nerve will stop painful hyperacusis but not tinnitus
however you may have a high chance of cutting the audiotory nerve making tinnitus much worse.

 

That must be horrible

 

Yes it is for the gentleman is question as he's now under the care of mental health.
Tinnitus is definitely not easy especially when you're unable to use sound enrichment because you can't hear it.

Michael

 

The worst your hearing gets, the louder your tinnitus will be. I wouldnt advise cutting the auditory nerve. Sure you can keep adapting to it, but its easier to adapt when it quiet then when its loud.

 

Why can't they surgically remove my head? That would solve most of my problems.

 

correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't removing the ears make tinnitus worse ?

 

Can someone help me out? I have had tinnitus now for almost 3 months and I don't have any perceivable hearing loss or hyperacusis. Sometimes it is so quiet that I feel like I'm healing, but then it comes back for a day or so. Also, when I drink a little vodka at night I feel like it helps almost abolish it in the morning. Any thoughts?

 

I read a study somewhere that they induced hyperacusis in mice that were genetically engineered to be deaf. Let that sink in: the mice still experienced pain from sound, even though they couldn't actually hear anything. I think this study also acted, directly or indirectly, as evidence to support the type II afferent nerve fibre theory.

 

Could you paste a link to this study here?

 

I can't seem to find the link to the exact study but a summary of the study (among others) can be found here:

"Lab mice can be bred to “knock out” a single gene among all the genes carried in their DNA. What’s actually knocked-out is the normally-occurring (“wild”) version of the gene; it’s not as if the part of the chromosome that gene lives on is replaced by a hole! The wild, functional DNA is replaced with a non-functioning gene. Since genes are responsible for the production of proteins, and proteins have various biological functions, rendering a specific gene non-functional will cause its protein product to not be produced (or to be produced but be non-functional). A mouse bred to have a non-functional gene is called a knock-out (KO) mouse.

Jaime and his team investigated the question in Vglut3-/- KO mice, which are bred to have the wild Vglut3 gene knocked out. These KO mice don’t produce the Vglut3 protein, which is involved in the IHC AMPA receptor for the neurotransmitter glutamate—the starting point for the canonical auditory pathway. No AMPA means no activation of Type I neurons—in other words, the canonical pathway of Vglut3-/- KO mice is silenced; the mice are deaf.

Despite this silencing, they documented neuronal activation in the brainstem in response to noxious noise—consistent with the activation of Type II afferents which does not depend on glutamate:

• Noxious (but not sub-noxious) noise damages hair cells, and they found responses to noxious—but not sub-noxious—noise in the cochlear nucleus (CN).
• They did not find responses to noxious noise in the trigeminal (5th cranial nerve) or vestibular (part of the 8th cranial nerve serving balance) nuclei.
• Noxious noise activated CN neurons in a pattern consistent with the innervation of Type II afferents. In addition, Type II neurons express proteins we’d expect to find in nociceptors, such as peripherin.

His conclusion: The response to noxious noise starts in the cochlea—not in middle ear or vestibule, and information about it is transmitted from OHCs via Type II auditory neurons. Jaime used the term noxacusis to refer to activation of the Type II afferent-mediated non-canonical pathway."

 

This is good news for regenerative medicine.

 

This piece of research is what almost convinces me beyond doubt that setbacks begin in the cochlea. I wish the research had gone one step further to try and experiment on the further following point below,

After the initial noxious noise exposure that clearly resulted in the primary damage, would further noise exposure at non noxious levels* continue to generate Type II activity, cochlear nucleaus activity, or ATP release at certain frequencies (i.e. the damaged frequencies)?

I can't see any indication that this was tested. If it was however, it could show that setbacks do begin in the cochlea, and that setbacks are triggered at frequency specific, non noxious noise levels.

Maybe it did go further, I'd like to read the whole thing someday.

@serendipity1996 tagging you as you may be interested.

*may need to be tested in louder and louder increments but stopping short of being noxious

 

Does the research mean that those of us with noxacusis just have some really shitty rare gene that predisposes us?

 

It's possible that there may be a gene that predisposes some people to be more likely to develop hyperacusis than others, but no, that is not what this research is suggesting. These knock-out mice still experienced pain when exposed to noxious levels of sound, even though they couldn't actually "hear" the sounds they were being exposed to due to not having the necessary gene required for activating type 1 neurons, which are responsible for transmitting sound information. The mice were deaf.

So to my understanding, the research is suggesting that the mechanism that causes pain in the case of hyperacusis does not directly relate to the mechanism that enables us to process sound. My understanding - and perhaps @serendipity1996, who is more well-versed in this subject than I am, can jump in here - is that the type II afferent fibres do not transmit any useful sound information, but if they become sensitised, they can still transmit pain when they 'sense' sound, even though they play no role in transmitting it like the type I fibres do.

 

Oh my gosh. This thread is incredibly depressing. I've had MEM and T and now have new symptoms of palatal myo and post-op pulsatile T and I've always told my doctors I'd gladly LOSE my hearing to get rid of the MEM and the clicks. It would be the greatest tradeoff! But knowing that people who are deaf can still have T and H is mind-blowing, and causing purposeful deafness probably wouldn't do anything for MEM or other myo's.

I do like the comment @SugarMagnolia made about removal of the head.

I mean, I'd be glad to have my entire auditory system removed, middle and inner ear plus all the stupid dsyfunctioning nerves, but I suppose there is that old adage of "I need that like I need another hole in my head". SIGH.

 

Isn't this called lobotomy and some have tested it for tinnitus? I think with MRI or what not the hyperactive region in the brain can be identified and then removed. But I don't think it was tried for hyperacusis.

 

I cannot use sound enrichment to distract from the tinnitus noise. I get burning pain and the tinnitus gets louder.

My hyperacusis seems to be getting worse with pain in the top/back of my head almost constant now and burning sensation in my ears on and off.

I try not not overprotect from low to moderate every day sounds.... if I have too much low to moderate sounds in a day, the next day and onward I am in pain. It's a vicious circle.

I am so afraid that the pain and burning will never go away. It's been 7 months.

I am so depressed and feeling utterly hopeless. What can I do?

 

I have the same problem with sound enrichment. Any level of audio, no matter how low, stabs into my ears. I tried sleeping with nature sounds and my ears were extremely on edge when I woke up. Seems sound therapy only typically works for people with some forms of loudness hyperacusis. I also think TRT is a cash grab invented for tinnitus that was tacked onto hyperacusis with no real scientific backing. There is a vocal minority of people it has worked for who believe they're doing good, when in reality they likely healed with the passage of time.

 

HI @LindaS

I am sorry to know of the difficulties that you have been going through with tinnitus and hyperacusis over the last seven months. You have always been polite and respectful towards me. When a person is this way it shows a lot about their character and it's something I take special note of. Therefore, I want to try and help you the best that I can. To do this I have taken the liberty of perusing some of your previous posts, to get some idea of what you've been going through in your life and the impact tinnitus and hyperacusis has been having on it. These conditions can affect a person's mental and emotional well-being profoundly, something that a lot of people don't realize. Once stress and anxiety are addressed and begin to improve, we start to feel better about life and often, this has a beneficial effect on the tinnitus and hyperacusis because our attention and focus are directed to other things.

Any personal references that I make you have previously mentioned in this forum, so please understand my intention is to help, not to overly intrude or be inappropriate. You mentioned caring for your mother in-law. To what extent I don't know but have some understanding of what this can entail, as I looked after both my parents before they passed away. Being a caregiver can affect the way tinnitus impacts on our life substantially, both during and after one stops being a carer. Since you were a regular user of headphones (as I was) this probably caused or contributed to the onset of tinnitus and hyperacusis. I know you have some hearing loss in both ears: 25/45 and use hearing aids. I would like to suggest you stop using the white noise with your Widex hearing aids for a while and see how you get on. I suggest this because you are very sensitive to sounds at the moment.

Whenever possible try to avoid staying in a quiet room as this can make the tinnitus more intrusive. I have covered this in many of my posts in the links that I will place below. I gather that you stay at home a lot of the time? If you're still doing this try and work towards going out each day even if it's just for ten minutes and gradually build-up. Staying at home to avoid environmental everyday sounds might seem a good idea but this can cause other problems that I mention in my post: The complexities of tinnitus and hyperacusis, in the link below. You have mentioned that you like to sew and make quilts? If you're able to continue doing this or return to it, please do as I think doing something creative will keep you occupied and help to take your attention away from the tinnitus and hyperacusis – at least for some of the time. The more you do this gradually things will get better.

Talk to your GP about how you feel and if possible, and see whether you can get a referral to an Audiologist that specialises in tinnitus and hyperacusis treatment and management. If this is not possible, then you'll have to try self-help. I know this isn't easy but I believe we can do a lot to help ourselves even if it may not seem so at first. I suggest you stay on the antidepressant medication that you've been prescribed. It may help talking this over with your doctor as part of a review. Although you find listening to sound enrichment difficult at the moment, please try and avoid staying in completely silent rooms. Play some low level classical or relaxing music in the background. Not necessarily listening to it but just to have it set at a low level for background ambiance to avoid quiet surroundings.

I know you have read some perhaps all of the my articles below. Please read them again and take your time. If possible, print and refer to them often. They are a form of counselling to help reinforce positive thinking. Reading them once is okay on a computer screen, but to fully absorb the information and to act upon it and help to instil positive thinking they should be read often.

Understandably you're going though a difficult time at the moment so just take life slowly. Try and go for a short walk each day. Use noise reducing earplugs if outside sounds are too loud at the moment. Gradually this should improve and your confidence will too.

Take care
Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/new-to-tinnitus-what-to-do.12558/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/hyperacusis-as-i-see-it.19174/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-a-personal-view.18668/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/acquiring-a-positive-mindset.23969/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-and-the-negative-mindset.23705/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/the-habituation-process.20767/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/what-is-trt-and-when-should-it-be-started.19024/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/what-happens-in-trt-sessions.18195/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/from-darkness-into-light.22234/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/can-tinnitus-counselling-help.22366/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-and-mental-health.21978/

 

Does your tinnitus still fluctuate?
Please describe your tinnitus, is it a pure tone? 1 or more sounds? Loudness?

 

What do you do during the day? How do you get through the day without music or tv?

 

@Michael Leigh

I find great comfort in corresponding with you. Thank you for taking the extra time to look up my previous posts in order to help me.

Yes, being a caregiver is hard. You are a good person to have looked after your parents.

I have a grown son. I was a single parent for him for a number of years. Then, I became a caregiver for my mother for 16 years.
Last year, my mother in law's health deteriorated and my husband and I were thrown in crisis for 2 months until she passed away.

My mother passed away last month.
I am currently grieving the loss of my mother, and a part of me is also grieving that after almost 34 years of caregiving... it would have finally been my time... to do more things that I couldn't do before: travel, start a business, try new hobbies, worry less. But tinnitus & hyperacusis and constant pain have taken over my life and I can do even less now.

I am trying, Michael. Yesterday, I was in my sewing room for a little bit. (It is my "happy place").
I even listened to 3 of my favorite slow songs on a really quiet setting. And, I went for a nature walk (with ear protection).
Nothing I did was loud, but today, I woke up with burning pain top/back of head and my ears felt fragile with bouts of burning pain when I tried to listen to some background sounds.

The sounds in my day are just low to moderate but the pain happens over and over again. It is only by staying in complete silence that the pain is reduced but I don't want to do that because I'm afraid my sound tolerance will decrease.
I am trying to remain positive. I have printed off many of your posts and other success stories in a binder I call "Treasury of Hope" and refer to them.
I am trying so hard but I am getting worn down by the pain.
It's the pain... not the actual tinnitus sound that is currently getting to me.
Thoughts of "S" are becoming more frequent. Not sure if it's my mental state due to the constant pain or side effect of the medications I am on.
(Besides Gabapentin, I am on Clonazepam .05 mg x 2x day and Trazodone 50 mg).
I will speak to the nurse practioner about it and see if she will let me try carbamazepine instead of the Gabapentin.
I need some relief from the pain!

As always, I thank you Michael, for your unfailing concern and willingness to help me and others.

Warm regards.

 

It sucks big time not being able to listen to music or watch TV. Actually, I do watch my two favorite TV shows every week but with no sound (captions only).
Yesterday was the first time I listened to music ( 3 songs really low volume) but today I tried it again and it caused me burning pain. I read a lot. I try to get sound stimulation from doing normal things around the house... cleaning, cooking, etc. Try to get out for a walk most days (with hearing protection). Just started spending time in my sewing room again (mostly playing with fabrics and rearranging things... I think sewing machine still hurts my ears).
I'm also slowly getting back to drawing/painting house portraits.
If I am totally engaged in something that has my full attention, I still hear the tinnitus but I'm thinking more of what I am doing. It bothers me the most in the evening when it becomes much louder.

 

I got tinnitus back in April. At first it fluctuated but then seemed to settle down. It also got quieter. I was doing really good. Then, I had a setback, then another one. Since then, it does not seem like I'm getting better. Now my tinnitus is fluctuating again.... most sounds will make it go louder.

Also, it always gets louder in later afternoon in to the evening including bedtime.

I'm not sure what is meant by a pure tone? Can you explain this as I have come across this on other posts.

I have at 2 sounds most of the time and the odd time a sudden high frequency sound in the good ear.

Loudness can be anywhere from 2/10 to 11/10 (there are nights where I lay in bed and there is a fire alarm going off in my head).

I see you reside in Toronto. I live just north of Toronto.