Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

Discussion in 'Research News' started by RB2014, Dec 8, 2016.

    1. serendipity1996
      No Mood

      serendipity1996 Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011 - T, 2016- H, relapsed 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise-induced
      I mean, I don't think it's just some lone tiny minority of people on this thread who believe in this theory, as you seem to think. This is hardly a fringe opinion either. The Hearing Health Foundation last year made a post about how treatment of noise-induced tinnitus will require developing treatments/cures for hearing loss.

      "Mounting evidence implicates tinnitus as an indicator of underlying auditory deficits, however mild these deficits might be, and including “hidden hearing loss” that isn’t captured via the standard audiogram."

      "In conclusion, all indications are that tinnitus, when not caused directly by a central nervous system issue (e.g., stroke), is always associated with one or more forms of hearing loss. As a result, although a treatment of most forms of tinnitus will likely emerge in the years to come, curing tinnitus will first require curing hearing loss."


      https://hearinghealthfoundation.org/blogs/tinnitus-and-noise-trauma-to-the-inner-ear

      Charles Liberman has also stated in various interviews that he thinks hearing restoration, e.g. via synaptogenesis could be a viable treatment for tinnitus and hyperacusis and that it's been observed that restoring input via cochlea implants has reduced tinnitus. Or does his expert opinion not count? He only discovered hidden hearing loss, after all...

      I respect your opinion but it seems like you outhand dismiss any other theory as being completely wrong and baseless. You could lose some of the condescension too.
       
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    2. Tezcatlipoca
      Question it

      Tezcatlipoca Member

      Location:
      Mexico
      Tinnitus Since:
      June 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL
      Well DDR has been working on this for a long, long time with nothing to show, he hasn't even proven "it's a brain problem".

      On the other hand the theory you very rudely dismiss as "emotionally biased" without even considering it has more and more evidence of being correct piling up by the day.
       
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    3. Keith Handy
      Dreaming

      Keith Handy Member

      Location:
      Rochester, NY, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Stress + sleep deprivation + noise
      How are his clinical trials going?
       
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    4. Gb3

      Gb3 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sshl
      Emotional process lol. It has nothing to do with that. I lost my hearing suddenly and my brain is freaking out.
       
    5. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      Not at all. Anyone can have an opinion on this as we don't know, nobody does, and that's kind of my point. I think hearing loss will be a big part of the problem for a lot of people, but I don't think it will outright solve it; I think there will be more to it, and that's my opinion. Last time I gave my opinion on this thread I was very much in the minority and was rudely told that I was wrong by some members, pretty much. I just found it interesting that DDR had a similar opinion to me, that's all.

      I wouldn't care either way if someone actually fixed tinnitus.
      Go back and read my previous interactions. Everything I said was dismissed with an air of condescension. All I said is that we don't know whilst others were fairly certain, and it seemed to anger a lot of people.

      If I come across that way as well, then I apologise; it's honestly not my intention at all. I'm more of a truth seeker than a definitive believer of something that isn't proven.
      But nobody has got anything to show for tinnitus that clinically works right now, so I think this is a bit of an odd statement.

      I think it's becoming quite clear that it's a brain problem more than an isolated issue of the ear. It's more of a combination of both in most cases based on the available evidence.
      I think there is a lot of emotional bias on here, but that's just my opinion. It's not a statement of fact. It may come across as rude, but that's not intentional and is no worse than how I was previously spoken to in this thread.
      How are everyone else's clinical trials going? I'm not sure what the point of this question is? Researchers look for answers, and every little bit of knowledge we gain enhances our understanding just a tiny bit. I'm thankful to everyone who tries to help.

      I think there's a bit of a tribal mentality that really frowns upon anyone who has the opinion that solving hearing loss might not fix tinnitus.

      Ultimately, I don't think anybody would care either way if there was actually a breakthrough and tinnitus became treatable.
       
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    6. Damocles
      Spooky

      Damocles Member Benefactor

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear Infection
      It'll seem ironic -considering my very vocal stance against the COVID-19 vaccines that are utilising gene therapy (also an ongoing experiment)- but there's no point in arguing about this.

      As several people have already said: we're not going to know if restoration of CHCs is going to resolve tinnitus, until a handful of tinnitus sufferers with NIHL, have had their CHCs restored.

      I'm really sorry @Justin Mills. You're gonna hate me, and I know you're probably going to come at me again for saying this again, but we are playing whack-a-mole here.

      Everybody just needs to chill out, watch a boxset or something, and maybe find a way to donate their bucks to research, until our guys (the scientists) get this thing off the ground.

      What I'll add, is that I am personally holding out more for treatments that reduce my symptoms rather than cure them for the time being. But if these "cures" ever begin to peek over the horizon, then as @danielthor said, I'm going to be prioritising regenerative treatments, ahead of anything that f*cks with my brain, like a chip.

      Let's see if this preferable pathway garners results, than we can start zapping our neurons for days.
       
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    7. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      There's a lot of research that suggests otherwise. It's still a minority of people who develop chronic tinnitus (particularly tinnitus that affects one's life considerably), even if it is present after an acoustic assault or repeated damage that leads to hearing loss. There surely has to be other brain processes involved otherwise everyone on the planet would have severe tinnitus. A bass player friend of mine - who has played in many bands with me over the years - has been in so many loud and damaging environments, including the gig that put me over the edge (he was sitting next to me at the time), has no tinnitus whatsoever, but he almost certainly has hearing loss. He has never used earplugs and has gigged since he was a teenager, and he's now in his 40's. This is just one example of many.

      I apologise again if people thought my posts were condescending as that was not my intention whatsoever. However, I would argue that some of the posts in response to my opinions were equally as bad, lol. Your reply above could be considered as such, for example. You could also argue that people are being condescending towards Prof. Dirk De Ridder.

      Until there is more conclusive evidence, all of our opinions are equally valid in my eyes. I just got a sense - the last time I was here - that my opinions weren't welcome in the discussion. It felt a bit echo-chamberish.
       
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    8. Pete88

      Pete88 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Likely noise
      I am on the side that thinks restoring input to the brain can lessen/stop tinnitus, at least sometimes. However, I do appreciate your scrutiny as I agree with the "echo-chamberish" comments. I've seen people in the thread repeat blatantly false information that sounds promising and these same people jump down throats who dare to question the religion and then act like nothing ever happened when the information was proven to be false. That is a clear indicator of emotional responses clouding objectivity in people, which is the perfect environment for an echo-chamber to thrive.

      That being said, I've observed many, many more wonderful and highly informative posts with fantastic facts and interpretations so I'm not trying to shit on the thread or anything. Just showing appreciation for healthy dialog and members who challenge the popular narrative on the thread. I understand people may be of the mind set that certain challenges have been already debunked/settled but with hearing loss and tinnitus being such unknowns, there isn't really much that's been settled on and therefore warrants the door of dialog to be closed.

      Of course there is a difference between a healthy challenge and just blatant pessimism, which is only backed by the mind set of "they haven't cured it yet so they will never be able to cure it". That is the same attitude that people who 50 years ago said "everything has already been invented".

      This thread has been quiet for months now so it's nice to see something that reignites discussion and reminds people to remember that there is good reason to hold on to hope for a drug(s) that has been developed and in testing.
       
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    9. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      Yea, I appreciate that. My comments are just opinions like everyone else's on this thread. I did feel that I was being shut down a tad when I posted here last time, but I can appreciate that people can get overly passionate in an environment like this. It's always good to see healthy discussions taking place.
       
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    10. antonio77

      antonio77 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      If that were the case, all the people with hearing aids and tinnitus would have been cured of tinnitus. Just because hearing loss causes tinnitus does not mean that curing hearing cures tinnitus. I don't know how to explain it, but for example if you are deaf and that is why you are hit by a car and you lose your leg, and when your hearing will be cured does not mean that you will get your leg back.
       
    11. Tezcatlipoca
      Question it

      Tezcatlipoca Member

      Location:
      Mexico
      Tinnitus Since:
      June 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL
      Congratulations, you just made the worst comment on this thread. Your comment singlehandedly killed any credibility this thread had.
       
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    12. Gb3

      Gb3 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sshl
      Why would your leg grow back if you cure your hearing?
       
    13. Keith Handy
      Dreaming

      Keith Handy Member

      Location:
      Rochester, NY, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Stress + sleep deprivation + noise
      I don't know if there's a special term for this, but there are cause-effect relationships involving distinct events, which is what you are describing, and there are cause-effect relationships that are continuous or ongoing.
       
    14. Ehren M
      Nerdy

      Ehren M Member

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      01/24/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      Referring to proximal versus ultimate cause?

      At any rate, correlation does not imply causation. So the story goes, we in fact cannot say with precision that smoking cigarettes causes lung cancer, but we have extremely strong correlative evidence of a relationship between smoking and lung cancer. Not causative... merely correlative, like the example of a person whose tinnitus improved while using hearing aid.
       
    15. Ehren M
      Nerdy

      Ehren M Member

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      01/24/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      Hell yes. That's the power of regenerative medicine, and the reason we are all here ;)
       
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    16. JohnK
      Busy

      JohnK Member

      Location:
      SF Bay Area
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/26/2015 (habituated) 5/13/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Doxycycline (2015) Otimize ear drops [neomycin] (2019)
      If hearing aids actually cured hearing instead of just overcompensating for lost hearing, this would be a more valid point.
       
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    17. tarmaced
      Wtf

      tarmaced Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004 (mild) 2018 (not so mild)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infections, compounded by noise exposure
      I felt pretty bad when I saw the news about the failed trail, but I was doing well at the time. I had a bad spike after a motorcycle journey recently, so am back on the forum, getting by on promises of future glory.

      Things look better than when I last looked for tinnitus treatment. I hope that FREQ can pull through with hearing regeneration!
       
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    18. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      Getting back to the discussion at hand: the problem I have with the idea of hearing restoration completely eradicating tinnitus is that there's no evidence that it will disrupt the network effect that a tinnitus brain usually develops. I think it will be better perceived with hearing aids and cochlear implants because you are improving the signal-to-noise ratio. Just the same as if you use earplugs; your tinnitus is going to rocket in volume for the reverse reason.

      Most research indicates that tinnitus is generated by the brain when hearing loss occurs. Numerous imaging studies show this network effect, or centralisation, as some call it. Fatima Husain is a well-known researcher, and her work shows that there are key differences in the emotional centres of the brain of those with tinnitus compared with controls. There's also been observed differences in the white matter of the brain of those with chronic tinnitus. These are physical differences. The precuneus may also be involved in how tinnitus is perceived. Again, imaging studies have shown that it acts differently in tinnitus brains compared to non-tinnitus brains.

      The precuneus is connected to the dorsal attention network and the default mode network which both do completely opposite jobs. The dorsal attention network is active when we are engaged and concentrating on something whereas the default mode network is active when our mind is at rest. When one network is active the other is switched off. The precuneus may be a possible marker. I believe the idea is that some tinnitus brains may struggle to switch off and are always at attention. This could be correlated to tinnitus patients’ lack of concentration and inability to sleep.

      In that study, we compared a group of patients with mild tinnitus who had developed tinnitus recently, having had their percept for > 6 months but less than one year, to another group of patients with mild tinnitus that had their tinnitus for > one year. We examined three resting-state networks (the DMN, dorsal attention, and auditory networks) and the only significant result was found in the DMN; patients with long-term tinnitus had decreased connectivity between seed regions and the precuneus when compared to the recent-onset group. This finding echoes the results found by Schmidt et al. (2013), which compared the same long-term group from Carpenter-Thompson et al. (2015) to control groups without tinnitus, and suggests that this disruption to the DMN is not immediate but occurs over time in patients.

      In the current study, we examined an additional tinnitus characteristic's effect on resting-state connectivity: tinnitus severity. Tinnitus severity in resting-state studies has been variable, ranging from mild to catastrophic (Husain and Schmidt, 2014); it could therefore help to explain the differing results. The existing literature seems to suggest that tinnitus severity has a significant impact on the resting state.

      There's also an impact on the resting state:

      Results: Data were included from nine resting-state neuroimaging studies that reported a total of 51 distinct foci. The meta-analysis identified consistent regions of increased resting-state brain activity in tinnitus patients relative to controls that included, bilaterally, the insula, middle temporal gyrus (MTG), inferior frontal gyrus (IFG), parahippocampal gyrus, cerebellum posterior lobe and right superior frontal gyrus. Moreover, decreased brain activity was only observed in the left cuneus and right thalamus.

      Resting-State Brain Abnormalities in Chronic Subjective Tinnitus: A Meta-Analysis

      There's a stack of research indicating other areas of the brain's involvement, particularly emotional memory. The caudate nucleus, which is involved with learning, memory, reward, motivation, emotion, and romantic interaction, etc, is also linked in many studies. I find this deep brain stimulation study quite interesting:

      Results: Acute tinnitus loudness reduction was observed at 5 caudate locations, 4 positioned at the body and 1 at the head of the caudate nucleus in normalized Montreal Neurological Institute space. The remaining 15 electrical stimulation interrogations of the caudate head failed to reduce tinnitus loudness. Compared to the caudate head, the body subdivision had stronger functional connectivity to the auditory cortex on fMRI (p < 0.05).

      Conclusions: Acute tinnitus loudness reduction was more readily achieved by electrical stimulation of the caudate nucleus body. Compared to the caudate head, the caudate body has stronger functional connectivity to the auditory cortex. These first-in-human findings provide insight into the functional anatomy of caudate nucleus subdivisions and may inform future target selection in a basal ganglia-centric neuromodulation approach to treat medically refractory tinnitus.

      Human caudate nucleus subdivisions in tinnitus modulation

      I think once tinnitus is centralised, there are too many neural networks involved for hearing restoration to eliminate it. My opinion is that something else will be needed to disrupt the network. However, as I stated at the beginning, I think restoring one's hearing will always work to improve the signal-to-noise ratio. It should always improve the perception to some degree.

      We need to figure out is what is causing the maladaptive plasticity and find ways to reverse it.

      EDIT:

      I was in a bit of a rush writing the above as I had to get my daughter ready for nursery. I want to add further detail by adding more relevant information. I've highlighted parts in bold, but you should read it all because it would make for an interesting debate.

      Tinnitus is a common auditory perceptual disorder whose neural substrates are under intense debate. One physiologically based model posits the dorsal striatum to play a key role in gating auditory phantoms to perceptual awareness. Here, we directly test this model along with the roles of auditory and auditory-limbic networks in tinnitus non-invasively by comparing resting-state fMRI functional connectivity patterns in chronic tinnitus patients against matched control subjects without hearing loss. We assess resting-state functional connectivity of the caudate dorsal striatum (area LC), caudate head (CH), nucleus accumbens (NA), and primary auditory cortex (A1) to determine patterns of abnormal connectivity. In chronic tinnitus, increases in ipsilateral striatal–auditory cortical connectivity are found consistently only in area LC. Other patterns of increased connectivity are as follows: (1) right striatal area LC, A1, CH, and NA with parietal cortex, (2) left and right CHs with dorsal pre-frontal cortex, (3) NA and A1 with cerebellum, hippocampus, visual and ventral pre-frontal cortex. Those findings provide further support for a striatal gating model of tinnitus, where dysfunctionally permissive area LC enables auditory phantoms to reach perceptual awareness.

      A recent development is the striatal gating model (Larson and Cheung, 2012), which hypothesizes the caudate nucleus to act as a gating mechanism for tinnitus awareness. The striatal gating model is physiologically based, motivated by electrical stimulation experiments in dorsal striatal area LC, located at the junction of the head and body of the caudate nucleus, on awake and interactive humans. Direct stimulation of area LC during deep brain stimulation (DBS) surgery in movement disorders patients with comorbid chronic tinnitus modulates auditory phantom loudness (Cheung and Larson, 2010) and triggers auditory phantom percepts in HL patients without tinnitus (Larson and Cheung, 2012). Furthermore, vascular infarction of area LC results in enduring tinnitus loudness suppression (Larson and Cheung, 2013). According to this model, dysfunctional corticostriatal connections between the dorsal striatum and auditory cortex act as a pathway for auditory phantom representations to reach perceptual awareness. The normally restrictive dorsal striatum becomes pathologically permissive in chronic tinnitus. Although the physiological mechanisms are not clear, it has been proposed that alteration in the balance of excitation and inhibition either within the caudate or in its connections to auditory cortex modulates this permissiveness (Calabresi et al., 2000; Goubard et al., 2011)

      Increased striatal functional connectivity with auditory cortex in tinnitus

      This is from an article, with Winfried Schlee, that caught my attention many years ago:

      It’s not just the auditory cortex that is affected when people get tinnitus. Neuroscientists, using increasingly sophisticated brain scans, are finding that changes ripple out across the entire brain. Winfried Schlee of the University of Konstanz in Germany and his colleagues have been making some of the most detailed studies of tinnitus ever, using a method called magnetoencephalography (MEG, for short). They take advantage of the fact that every time neurons send each other signals, their electric current creates a tiny magnetic field. MEG allows scientists to detect such changing patterns of activity in the brain 100 times per second.

      Schlee and his colleagues find widespread differences in the brains of people with tinnitus and those without it. A network of regions in the brains of people with tinnitus tend to fire their neurons in sync. Schlee has determined that his tinnitus-stricken subjects have a more synchronized pattern of signals coming out of regions in the front and the back of the brain. (For brain anatomy junkies, they are the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, orbitofrontal cortex, and anterior cingulate cortex in the front; in the back, they are the precuneus and posterior cingulate cortex.) Schlee and his colleagues also discovered a more strongly synchronized flow of signals coming into the temporal cortex — a region that includes the auditory cortex — in people with tinnitus.

      When Schlee compared people who suffer a lot of distress from tinnitus with those who are not much bothered by it, he found that the more distress people felt, the stronger the flow of signals out of the front and back of the brain and into the temporal cortex. This pattern suggests that the network Schlee discovered is important for the full experience of tinnitus. Tinnitus, in other words, extends beyond the ear, beyond a hearing-specialized part of the brain, beyond even any single piece of neural real estate. It is a disease of networks that span the brain.


      Clearly the auditory cortex is just an early stop on the journey that sound takes from the outside world to our awareness. Some neurons in the auditory cortex extend branches down to the brain stem, where they link to a pair of regions called the caudate nucleus and putamen. Those regions may be important for processing the signals in several ways, such as categorizing sounds.

      Once signals travel from the ear to the auditory cortex, caudate, and putamen, they eventually make their way to regions of the brain that carry out more sophisticated sound information processing: connecting the sounds with memories, interpreting their meaning, giving them emotional significance. It is precisely these regions that Schlee and his colleagues noted were behaving strangely in people with tinnitus. He argues that it is only when signals reach this large-scale network that we become conscious of sounds, and it is only at this stage that tinnitus starts to cause people real torment. Schlee’s results suggest that the higher regions of the brain send their own feedback to the auditory cortex, amplifying its false signals. Schlee’s model of tinnitus and consciousness could explain some curious observations. Even in bad cases of tinnitus, people can become unaware of the phantom sound if they are distracted. It may be that distractions deprive the errant signals from the auditory cortex of the attention they need to cause real distress. What’s more, some of the most effective treatments for tinnitus appear to work by altering the behavior of the front of the brain.

      I found this part very interesting:

      As a young man, Lowry spent a summer working on a farm with a noisy tractor. The experience left him with partial hearing loss and a high-pitched ringing in his ears that plagued him for 40 years. Then at age 63, Lowry suffered a mild stroke. A CT scan and an MRI revealed that the stroke had damaged his caudate and putamen. But the stroke also brought a pleasant surprise. Lowry was completely cured of his tinnitus, without any further hearing loss.

      The Brain: "Ringing in the Ears" Actually Goes Much Deeper Than That
       
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    19. Gorbeh3

      Gorbeh3 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing Loss
      Anyone watch the presentation this morning? Can anyone give a summary? Anything new?
       
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    20. star-affinity
      Wishful

      star-affinity Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1993, increase in 2020, then new in 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Maybe during a soundcheck – sudden sound from speaker
      @Ed209, very interesting stuff.

      I've flagged my interest in participating in an MEG based study ”trying to objectively diagnose tinnitus and see how changes in different parts of the brain can be a cause of the perceived sound”. It will hopefully start in the beginning of next year.

      The more research the better! Feels like we have a long way to go. :( So let's step it up! I don't want to wait until I get a stroke that might has the change to stop the tinnitus. :cry:

      And please can we get rid of the hearing loss and sometimes ”crawling” feeling in my ear? It's so sad that the ear doesn't heal from such things I think. Or maybe it's just take long enough time... Since this tinnitus crap started I have more of a hard time feeling sorry for people when they have an illness that are temporary. Soon five months and still going... What if you had an illness that lasted forever? :cry:

      Sorry, I just still have a hard time comprehending that this is my reality going forward. :banghead:
       
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    21. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      This is really cool, Star. Keep us posted.

      What I find intriguing is that electrical stimulation of the caudate has shown to reduce tinnitus loudness, or at least modulate the volume, and the person who ended up with a damaged caudate via a stroke was completely cured.

      For anyone who’s interested, here's a detailed case report of what happened, including the guy’s audiograms and brain scans:

      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8468432_An_Absence_of_Tinnitus
       
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    22. PortugalTheMan
      Shocked

      PortugalTheMan Member

      Location:
      Portugal
      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Anxiety / Maybe years listening to music on headphones
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    23. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
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    24. Joeseph Stope
      Innocent

      Joeseph Stope Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise? infection? negative stress? other?
      Magnificent discussion Ed & Friends.

      I'm of the view that these up-front arguments even when (or very often when) there is some struggle & strife, it can lead to new ways of looking at things. Just like brainstorming.

      The cause of tinnitus vs the location of tinnitus.

      Most people agree that in many cases it starts off with hearing damage. Inner hair cells? Outer hair cells? Stereocilia? Synapses anyone? But the process develops as the brain (and location?) changes.

      Maybe the people on this board should differentiate more strongly between acute (recent onset) tinnitus and chronic (greater than 6 months? 12 months?) tinnitus. This usually is a big part of the picture.

      In a previous post, on causality I made the philosophical analogy of Lee Harvey Oswald being the cause of the Kennedy assassination. But extracting Oswald is not going to bring back JFK.

      I guess that may be the reason that Frequency Therapeutics regrowing hair cells and synapses (regenerative medicine) has attracted so many supporters and so much emotion on here. You're kind of doing a reset of the entire thingie. Also the stock value might be another reason people get emotional and angry :bag:

      And lastly, life is so much more fun if you have some little thing to raise your hopes -- something to look forward to. Some people set their hopes on a tinnitus cure. Well Hey! Some people put their hopes on ummmm Red Sox or Gophers.
       
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    25. Kleiner

      Kleiner Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sound trauma
      Don't be put off by proponents of the old "stuck in the brain" theories and other variations like DDR.

      Their arguments aren't all wrong, but if tinnitus is caused by hearing loss, reestablishing hearing input should have a positive influence on tinnitus, this is the principle behind most cases of tinnitus.

      DDR talks a lot but I still don't know what concrete and reproducible he offers; have I missed something?

      Dr. Shore's science has the merit of being consistent and studied. I have a very specific case of tinnitus, and my symptoms fully correspond to her theory and more generally to the theory that tinnitus is reversible.

      The cerebral plasticity implies that you can evolve badly, but also evolve well. Maybe hearing regeneration will need to be accompanied by neuromodulation / KV7 openers, that's a possibility. But hearing regeneration will have a significant effect in "standard" cases of tinnitus.
       
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    26. antonio77

      antonio77 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      It's a metaphor.

      I can tell you this in another way; cancer. A woman who has cancer and loses a breast because of it, even if she is 100% cured of cancer, her breast does not grow back. Loss of the breast is directly related to cancer. If you still don't understand this, I give up, believe what you want.
       
    27. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      Yea, that's a good point. I think long-term chronic tinnitus is less likely to correct itself with hearing restoration alone, but I think a case could be made for it stopping acute tinnitus from becoming chronic.
       
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    28. Gb3

      Gb3 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sshl
      Bro, are you ok?
       
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    29. Diesel

      Diesel Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      1-2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      20+ Years of Live Music, Motorcycles, and Power Tools
      I've got a metaphor for you all every time this "tinnitus origins" debate comes up... but first my thoughts on the matter. As it relates to tinnitus as a chronic symptom following hearing loss - related events (acute or gradual), which seems to be associated with many of the members on this site; it really seems reasonable that reversing the underlying cause (the damage to the cochlea) should cause a downstream improvement in the tinnitus sensation in the brain. (Remember: Neuroplasticity).

      My opinion: It seems like there's a ton of time and resources "invested" in looking at the brain and associated nervous system to understand what is happening when "ears start ringing." And frankly, for the most part, the observations are looking at it in a one-way direction: the damage worsens over time and so does the tinnitus. So, more resources need to go into repairing the underlying cause (hearing loss, TMJ, etc). There's not a lot of research, if any, only anecdotes on sites like this, that indicate that as hearing recovers, the tinnitus experience also seems to resolve to some extent.

      Now, back to the metaphor. The nail = hearing damage.

      It's Not About The Nail
       
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    30. Cernuto
      Spaced

      Cernuto Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Induced
      If it's all in the brain how come my tinnitus gets dramatically louder before a rainstorm? Do you expect me to believe my brain re-wires itself prior to the rainstorm, then re-wires itself back the way it was a day or so after the rain is gone?
       
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