New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

Discussion in 'Research News' started by Hudson, Jun 20, 2013.

    1. Rb86

      Rb86 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      5/31/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      Sorry if I missed it, but do I understand correctly, you had 65 dB of tinnitus years ago, used their device which caused a 15 dB reduction, which has remained consistent years later? I know that it didn't give the relief you've wanted or needed but still, an absolutely fascinating tip of the hat to this science.

      My question would be - how did you acquire tinnitus and is it possible yours naturally "calmed down" 15 dB on its own over time?

      I've had mine 3 years and it has calmed down after the first few months but still pesters me pretty bad to this day.
       
    2. dj_newark

      dj_newark Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1990
      Yes it's fascinating that my tinnitus reduced by 15 dB. I really don't think that it calmed down naturally. I've had it for 30 years and it's been off the charts severe for 20 years. It's a miracle this happened, but it did not provide relief.

      I got tinnitus from loud noise exposure, playing in bands and going to see concerts. It got worse I think when I started taking psych meds to deal with the noise I was experiencing. Those meds were ototoxic and that's what I think sent the tinnitus into an extremely severe state.

      I've never had any improvement in my tinnitus that occurred "naturally" in the course of my having tinnitus for over 30 years. The fact that I was actively using the MicroTransponder for 9 hours a day and going up to Buffalo to have my hearing and tinnitus tested and that was the only time in 30 years I've ever had any improvement in this condition tells me all I need to know about what caused the reduction! I have no doubt whatsoever that the MicroTransponder is what caused the reduction in my tinnitus.
       
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    3. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      But no relief? Care to conjecture why such a substantial improvement didn’t really help.
       
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    4. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      15 dB is still classified as no relief? This report of permanent alteration is why it's so maddening the mixed messaging on whether neuromodulation lasts or requires lifetime treatments.
       
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    5. Piney

      Piney Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Shingles virus
      Because 65 dB is extremely loud. The same as my shower fan. I measured my own tinnitus to it and it matched. So at 50 dB his is still loud.
       
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    6. ColinUK

      ColinUK Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2013 initial, worsened 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Initial Music Gig, Worsened Cinema or possible covid
      Personally I wouldn't care if I needed to plug myself in for a few hours a day. If anything works that's not surgical and doesn't have substantial risk of worsening, then it's a win. I'll take a pill, get an injection, be electrocuted, whatever.
       
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    7. dj_newark

      dj_newark Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1990
      Classified by me. What I'm saying that subjectively, I felt no relief from the 15 dB reduction that was measured at the University of Buffalo.
      Because even after the 15 dB reduction, my tinnitus was still REALLY FUCKING LOUD!!! That's why I didn't get any relief. LOL.

      However, the audiologists at the University of Buffalo definitely measured a 15 dB reduction in my masking levels. They had remained completely consistent over the course of the year and a half I had been going there before the reduction in tinnitus volume was measured. I was still suffering badly after the reduction because my tinnitus has been very severe for decades!
      Yes!!! That is precisely why a 15 dB reduction in my tinnitus volume didn't give me any relief. You can't live a normal life with 50 dB of grating, screeching sound in your head!
       
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    8. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      For the record, I have very significant tinnitus as well so I can empathize.

      So in your experience a critical threshold needs to be crossed before relief can be experienced? From what I understand (and I don't claim to understand much) a 15 dB reduction should be greater than 50% reduction in volume, but that level still elicits essentially the same pain as the previous higher MML, right? Could you tell that it was quieter even if it was equally distressing?
       
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    9. dj_newark

      dj_newark Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1990
      It's difficult to say. I never experienced it as quieter even though the volume was reduced by 15 dB. It went from 65 dB to 50 dB - that's not a 50% reduction! It's a very subjective experience to gauge and I was still suffering with 50 dB of loud, screeching, grating sound in my head. Yes, it sill elicited the same level of pain as the previous MML level.
       
    10. kingsfan
      Mellow

      kingsfan Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Southern California
      Tinnitus Since:
      9-17-20 / 10-20-20 / 3-31-21 / 5-23-21
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      turning everything up to 11
      I don't really feel that measuring volume from a masking sound is all that accurate. I can play my tinnitus tone at a much lower volume than I perceive it and it will mask it.
       
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    11. CRGC

      CRGC Member

      Location:
      Montreal
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      SNRI/Noise
      Maybe I’m being overoptimistic but @dj_newark’s story and the talk in the University of Minnesota thread are giving me hope for the Dr. Shore device / bimodal stimulation as a successful tinnitus treatment.
       
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    12. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
      Decibel is a logarithmic scale, the 15 dB drop was significant and if that had truly happened, you would have noticed it.
       
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    13. dj_newark

      dj_newark Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1990
      I disagree, and I don't think you'd know what I should and should not have noticed. I think it's because of the intensity of my tinnitus that I didn't realize any benefit. There are sounds in my head that are constant, some that are fluctuating, and I experience periods of spikes.

      Measuring masking levels for tinnitus is subjective by nature. The Bionics Institute in Australia is coming up with a way to objectively measure tinnitus. My feeling is that it'll only be when that technology is available that we'll have a clear idea with what's going on with anyone's tinnitus. It will also be an incredible benefit to researchers who are trying to actually reduce the volume we experience.

      That being said, they did measure a 15 dB drop in my tinnitus at the University of Buffalo, but I never experienced any benefit because of how severe and intense my tinnitus normally is.
       
    14. InNeedOfHelp

      InNeedOfHelp Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      MRI Scan
      I think we might have some trial results coming up early December...

      Palm Springs Hearing Seminars

      3rd of December:

      1-2 pm: Eagleman - Neosensory Science and Technology Overview: A haptic approach to bimodal stimulation for tinnitus management

      2-3 pm: Shore - Title: Michigan Tinnitus Device: Improving treatment for patients with tinnitus

      Acousia Therapeutics and Decibel Therapeutics are also presenting.

      It can be followed online against a fee. Streaming is available.

      /enough of my compulsive digging for updates.
       
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    15. Nick47

      Nick47 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
      I'm not sure any results will be announced until the paper is written, peer reviewed and published. It's a good find though all the same.

      I expect she will just go through her research, recap her approach and Phase 1 results.
       
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    16. InNeedOfHelp

      InNeedOfHelp Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      MRI Scan
      Nope. It would be very unlikely because there are two separate sessions:

      On day 1, 10-11 am: Shore - Altering Plasticity in a Brain-stem Circuit to Treat Tinnitus in Guinea Pigs and Humans.

      On day 2, 2-3 pm: Michigan Tinnitus Device: Improving treatment for patients with tinnitus.

      To add, see the attachment on the website with bio and abstract of what is to be presented:
      Not trying to start a hype train but do you think she would present an hour on the MTD (that seems to be the name of the device) on how her Phase 2 trial failed? It clearly states preliminary data. That means new, early data. This is the first positive signal we have in my opinion.
       
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    17. Erik.Swe

      Erik.Swe Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Concert
      I don’t think she would have the presentation if the results were bad? Because even if the paper isn’t written yet, she might know what the results look like by then. It would be really strange if she has a presentation, promoting the device, if the results are bad?
       
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    18. Nick47

      Nick47 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
      I agree this indicates some level of expected or realised success. It will only take a few weeks to put the data into SPSS and press enter.
       
    19. Gb3

      Gb3 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sshl
      Dude, can you stop? Your comments are sooooo bad. You are clearly out of the loop.
       
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    20. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
      You are wrong. Preliminary data can be considered the Phase 1 data. It's preliminary, small sample size, early trial.

      There won't be new Phase 2 information in her presentation. She will just go over the Phase 1 preliminary data, mark my words.
       
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    21. kingsfan
      Mellow

      kingsfan Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Southern California
      Tinnitus Since:
      9-17-20 / 10-20-20 / 3-31-21 / 5-23-21
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      turning everything up to 11
      Care to bring the rest of us in the loop?
       
    22. Nick47

      Nick47 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
      @Gb3, I was saying this is maybe a good sign.
       
    23. InNeedOfHelp

      InNeedOfHelp Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      MRI Scan
      Sure. Absolutely.

      Spread over two sessions on two different days, with a second presentation of a full hour dedicated exclusively to the MTD. I guess you already heard Dr. Shore talk an hour straight exclusively on this device recently, happens all the time. Sure thing. She will absolutely not bring efficacy to the table in that hour, six months after her Phase 2 trial concluded. She will play dumb pretending not to know the study results six months after. In the full hour she will repeat over and again what we already know about the device (we know absolutely nothing) and that she will only share preliminary results after the paper.

       
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    24. Nick47

      Nick47 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
      @InNeedOfHelp, I hope you're right. Time will tell!
       
    25. dj_newark

      dj_newark Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1990
      You are wrong. I've just had this email exchange with Dr. Shore.
       
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    26. BrysonKingMe

      BrysonKingMe Member

      You must be the chosen one -- I've gotten the same email response both times I've emailed her.

      But this is awesome and thank you.

      One question I have, and no, I'm not expecting any answers right now, is will this help with tinnitus that fluctuates. I guess my tinnitus is centered around the same 11 kHz screech on bad days, but the sound changes by the minute. From electricity all over my head to a laser beam in my skull.
       
    27. dj_newark

      dj_newark Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1990
      Thanks, I have been corresponding with her since about 2014. She doesn't give me much information, but I usually do hear from here when I email.

      I am wondering about that too. I have multiple sounds in my head, and I have great difficulty determining what frequencies are there and which ones are dominant. And they seem to change. So I am also wondering how her device will work for me when it is out. I hope that it will, but I don't know.

      However, you have to think that there are people in the most recent trial that were like us... with fluctuating frequencies! What I want to know is if they responded and to what degree. I doubt we'll get that much information from her presentation in December.

      But what I hope this means, when she says that there will be new information presented at the conference, is that the trial data will be published by then. THAT would be phenomenal! Let's hope that's what it means! But nevertheless we will get new information at that conference even if it's not the full published data.
       
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    28. Mentos

      Mentos Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cracow, Poland
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced, loud rock concert
      Could it be that your hearing improved and you needed less external noise to mask your tinnitus? This would explain why subjectively you perceived no difference in the loudness of your tinnitus, while MML (0 based) did reduce.
       
    29. dj_newark

      dj_newark Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1990
      No. How does hearing improve? It doesn't unless you're talking about clearing wax out of your ears. Hearing doesn't improve by itself.

      It did take 15 dB less masking to mask my tinnitus which is how they measured the drop. The audiologists at the University of Buffalo that performed the masking tests are well trained and competent.
       
    30. CRGC

      CRGC Member

      Location:
      Montreal
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      SNRI/Noise
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