New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

Have you even read her papers? In any case, there's a pretty obvious reason why she only included people with somatic tinnitus in her studies. To the extent of our knowledge, the device will help these people the most.

Read her papers, and the papers she quotes in her papers. After doing so, like I have, you can formulate an adequate opinion on this topic.

 

I don't think anybody is under the impression it will treat the cause, are they? We want the symptom of ringing, whooshing etc to go away. The cause of those issues won't go away.

 

I am possibly on this rare occasion going to disagree here. Whilst I'm not 100% sure, the evidence seems quite strong. It's also the first area of the brain that receives input (or lack of it in our case) from the auditory nerve. The Shore Lab were able to control for animals with and without tinnitus and identify neural correlates. The treatment clearly works over the sham across the 2 groups in 2 clinical trials.

Now I do hold reservations certainly, like how good the sham was as a placebo, the validity of the TinnTester etc. I also have not heard any other researcher, clinician or body, congratulate, speculate or comment on the trial results. The news has been received by our community with delight, but little reaction by anyone outside here, including the ATA and Tinnitus UK.

 

What makes you think I haven't read the papers? And why the attitude?

 

What attitude? If you've actually read her papers, you obviously wouldn't be sharing opinions like that on this thread...? Can you provide any specific arguments as to why you disagree with her theories?

 

I think where questions have arisen here of whether or not a person would need to use the device long-term/permanent suggest a lack of clarity about what it may or may not be doing at the root level. But sure, in the bigger picture it probably doesn't matter whether we're talking cure or treatment at this point as long as it works on the symptoms.

To be honest, I agree. Right now the evidence from Susan Shore's trials (at least the stuff we've been able to see) appears strong. I guess I'm jaded by having never found a satisfactory answer as to why some people can butcher their ears and never get tinnitus, whilst others go about living like monks and fall foul of it. There's something else going on. I don't believe science has answered that question yet but when it does I think we could actually cure tinnitus and not just reduce the sound (although I'll take a reduction any day).

 

Why do some poeple smoke for 50 years and never get lung cancer, while other do?

In the case of tinnitus, referring to Thanos Tzounopoulos' research, some people can have spontaneous potassium channel resurgence, while others do not, continuing to operate in a state of dysfunction. At least that's one observation that was made. I guess the only thing here we can say is luck or genetics.

 

This is exactly the point. Coincidentally I think Thanos has given us important clues as to the mechanism of cause of tinnitus (and perhaps even other maladies); the "tap" if you will.

My understanding of Susan Shore's work is that it modulates the auditory system from a different angle, calming the fusiform cells rather than gating or switching off the activity at the tap.

Anyhow, it's 1 AM here and bedtime. Goodnight.

 

I suppose. In any case, most of Shore's theories have to do with somatic crossfire with the auditory system. Which isn't the case for everyone.

 

I recently talked with Prof. Berthold Langguth regarding Dr. Shore's device. He was slightly optimistic but very reluctant. I guess he has seen so many new treatments that have failed in the real world.

He thinks the main difference between Dr. Shore's device and Lenire is the Timing Pattern Settings. My feeling was that he wasn't much aware or informed of the study results in detail. I don't know why it takes so long to publish the latest study results to the experts for peer review.

 

The main difference is that Lenire is an under-researched gimmick/scam that was built on what fumes remained from Hubert Lim's research before it got shut down and overtaken by Neuroscam, which prioritize profits and marketing to fool as many sufferers as possible into buying their overpriced Bluetooth toy.

1) You cannot have precise signal timing with Bluetooth.

2) Lenire has presets, which is BS because every person needs the device to be specifically tailored towards their case.

3) No placebo control or control groups in their "study ". Like, really? And they want us to take their results seriously?

 

They both work on different nerves too, don't they? The Shore device works on the nerve that people do that tapping thing on the back of their head and can achieve silence for maybe a minute or two.

It's all speculation just now, but the fact that there have been two successful well-designed studies, the device has been in development for what... 20 odd years (?), unlike Lenire, and so is very unlikely to be a cash grab, there is (admittedly limited) positive feedback from a Tinnitus Talk member, @linearb, who was part of the study, there is well described science (again unlike Lenire "tongue electrode go brrrr") etc. all lead me to believe it will work.

Not work in the sense of we'll all be cured, but work well enough to be the foundation for some pretty huge advances within this space in the next decade which may lead to devices that can achieve near total silence. Let's be real, the first generation of any technology isn't as good as it "can be."

 

Yes, this is my understanding of the research.

Are you in Germany? I like the way Berthold Langguth communicates as a researcher. He is ranked as the no. 1 tinnitus researcher, although this really means just the number of papers published, not significant findings or treatments.

It is important to realise that Berthold Langguth has a paid role with Neuromod.

 

Yes, I am located in Germany.

Prof. Langguth has published a lot of studies and articles about tinnitus and is a great doctor, but he has never found any reliable treatments for it. Just like Prof. De Ridder.

They actually still have no clue how tinnitus is generated. Just speculation with different theories. In any case, they see Dr. Shore's approach similar to Neuromod's approach, even though they target different nerves. For them, it's all bimodal stimulation. I hope they are wrong.

 

So if my tinnitus gets louder when I clench my teeth or extend out my jaw, does that mean it is somatic? I have noise-induced tinnitus in one ear. I seem to have difficulty getting an answer on what exactly IS somatic tinnitus.

 

Yes, it does. Somatic tinnitus is the one that you can change with neck, head or jaw movements.

 

The study is out!

Reversing Synchronized Brain Circuits Using Targeted Auditory-Somatosensory Stimulation to Treat Phantom Percepts

 

Well found, @Bambam0! Thank you for posting it.

 

Almost there!!! Can anyone tell what % of those treated had a significant clinical response? I’m ready to believe but I want to be realistic as to my chances.

EDIT:

Just found it on a chart, ~65%.

 

Sharp eyes! Incredible news! All that remains now is FDA approval (happening sooner rather than later) and commercialization!

 

I'm crying.

 

Please open fire. The clinical trial participants can now share their experiences, right? There must have been a few of us here who took part. Please share your impressions.

What does tinnitus spectrum mean?

 

And the end of Neuroscam a.k.a. Lenire.

 

This is great news!

However, there is mention of a possible placebo effect.

We'll have to see. To be continued.

 

They do quite rightly point out that tinnitus reduction is only clinically significant in the treatment group and not in the control group. I've only read through it once but they do seem rather thorough.

Supplementary data is also worth a quick gander if anyone is interested.

 

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

 

Mighty Morphin Power Rangers Full Theme Song

 

This is such good news. My noxacusis is what’s killing me but I’ve had tinnitus way longer, almost 8 years now. I can’t imagine the people who have had it for decades. This is the first good news we have seen this entire time. 65% reduction is more than what I thought it would reduce. If my tinnitus was halved, I would call that a major win. Maybe the future isn’t so grim for us after all.

It’s a longshot to help hyperacusis and noxacusis but we will find out with time because I’m sure so many people here will be trying it. I can’t do artificial audio, but I’ll probably try it in my better ear that has moderate noxacusis, it’s the one with way worse tinnitus.

It’s time to kick TRT, CBT and positive thinking to the curb and make way for treatment that actually lowers tinnitus volume!

 

I'm not the best at understanding all of the technical jargon in these journals. Can anyone ascertain if there actually were dropouts or people that tinnitus got worse for? It seems to touch on 26 people leaving the clinical trial after being enrolled, but at what point did they leave is unclear to me...

They also said they stopped treating people if it made their tinnitus worse for two weeks in a row but then it didn't state if it actually did make tinnitus worse for anyone. I'm a little confused.

 

Michigan Medicine: Study shows promising treatment for tinnitus

“This study paves the way for the use of personalized, bi-sensory stimulation as an effective treatment for tinnitus, providing hope for millions of tinnitus sufferers,” said Shore.

She's so Shore about this! Love her.