Sound Pharmaceuticals (SPI-5557 & SPI-1005)

Discussion in 'Research News' started by joe, Jan 26, 2012.

    1. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I hesitated on whether or not to mention this because it hasn't gone through 3 phases of safety trials, but for anyone truly at the end of their rope (I would otherwise recommend not being a guinea pig without tons of your own research and cost/benefit analysis), this could be acquired in a similar way to how people were trying to get the Hough Pill for a fraction of that cost (but still a lot of money).

      *** disclaimer: I have no idea how to tell if any of these labs are genuine or which ones would have good quality. Also, very few of us know how much inflammation we have in our cochleas and how much of that is contributing. But I know some people need any chance to get relief and it's a matter of literal life or death so I wanted to put that out there and let people make their own decisions.

      Please know I'm not recommending this unless it's this or suicide because the drug will likely be available soon. But I do understand for some people "soon" might not be good enough so it might be worth a try for them.
       
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    2. weab00
      Alone

      weab00 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      depression-ville
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise, whiplash; 08/20 H
      Yes I'm excited as well and it's a lot closer than any other biotech right now.
       
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    3. frpp

      frpp Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Tmj, Nihl, ototoxic drugs, nerve/ vascular issues
      Could you explain more about compassionate use? I'm not familiar with that term. Does it require a diagnosis?
       
    4. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      I wonder whether the report they released recently on the inflammation from noise was a key publication and they now have the required evidence to proceed further with human trials?

      I still agree that the COVID-19 indication is surely going to assist in getting this released if it indeed has a benefit.

      Furthermore I strongly believe that there will be benefit from treating the inflammation even if you had other treatments available like a synapse treatment for example.
       
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    5. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      It's also called Expanded access. Here is the Wikipedia about it:

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanded_access

      As to your question whether you need a diagnosis, I think you just a need an unambiguous description of a condition but I'm not sure about that. Your doctor should have access to the application and would be better suited to answer that.
       
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    6. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      Ahh all good. Going by what you are saying, the rules for prescribing drugs are very different in America to what they are here in Australia. I wish it was that easy lol, although I am assuming a number of ear specialists will work with these sort of treatments and have no issues in prescribing them either. Essentially I suspect that this will be a novel and different area of treatment to what we have now and that even the doctors who work with this stuff will be somewhat looked upon with scorn at least initially.
       
    7. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      I reckon the major reason why it has taken so long to complete the required research and actual trials is because Sound Pharmaceuticals firstly want to get the treatment as good as they can possibly get it and secondly because they think that they have a winner treatment. The fact that this treatment can provide so much benefit to so many people and across multiple treatment areas indicates that they can hopefully expect good outcomes.

      I think that while there has possibly been a delay in proceeding with trials for certain indications and subsequently getting the treatment released to the market, this won't have a negative outcome on the treatment overall. In fact I actually believe that this is a positive thing because it is obvious that Sound Pharmaceuticals clearly wants to demonstrate that this treatment is sound and robust. Research now verifies this.

      Thus I think that this treatment is going to be brilliantly beneficial to anyone who has issues which will be assisted by any of the restorative treatments. The theory is that most of us probably do have cochlear inflammation of some kind and I think that SPI-1005 will wonderfully assist with treating this. Therefore I think that this will be a beneficial treatment to take regardless of what other drugs are available on the market to assist with ear issues.
       
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    8. frpp

      frpp Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Tmj, Nihl, ototoxic drugs, nerve/ vascular issues
      Sorry. What I meant is I have a GP who would prescribe things if I needed them, but I'm unsure if they are able to prescribe something that possibly only an ENT can.

      However, if SPI-1005 gets approved for coronavirus then it would be easy to obtain.
       
    9. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      Yes, you are making more sense now. Not sure what the rules are for off-label prescriptions in America, however in Australia a medicine can only be prescribed by a doctor if it falls within their scope. So for example a GP could get away with prescribing a Viagra course for heart help (under the guise of erection issues) as treating this is considered to be within their scope. However, they couldn't probably prescribe SPI-1005 even for COVID-19 because COVID-19 here is considered a treatment that needs to be treated at a hospital. Incredibly even some fairly regular medications like eye drops can only be prescribed by either a hospital doctor or an eye specialist for example.
       
    10. Turgy

      Turgy Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      Can this drug help with noise-induced tinnitus?
       
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    11. Pitseleh

      Pitseleh Member

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I guess one will have to try the drug and see if it brings an improvement for them.
       
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    12. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      There is research indicating that it does help with noise induced hyperacusis and/or tinnitus. The thing is that you would obviously need to try it, although the evidence and the information suggests that noise induced issues would be treated with SPI-1005.
       
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    13. weab00
      Alone

      weab00 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      depression-ville
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise, whiplash; 08/20 H
      I think it has a better chance of helping hyperacusis than tinnitus because hyperacusis has more to do inflammation.
       
    14. Diesel

      Diesel Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Ohio
      Tinnitus Since:
      1-2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      20+ Years of Live Music, Motorcycles, and Power Tools
      All, please excuse my ignorance re: SPI-1005 and Ebselen.

      I've read a little this morning about how SPI-1005 seems to show significant improvements in Meniere's patients as it relates to tinnitus loudness. Is that what we're expecting to see in those with tinnitus symptoms from another cause?

      I am not anywhere near as familiar with the tinnitus symptoms of Meniere's as I am to NIHL/SNHL. So, some explanation would help here.
       
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    15. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      They are currently recruiting to prevent acute NIHL (similar to Hough Ear Institute's bomb blast pill). They have also shown pre-clinically to have an effect for Aminoglycosides ototoxicity.

      How much it helps depends on how much inflammation and neuroinflammation you have.

      The drug is very complex and appears to have the following effects:

      Prevents some of the deleterious effects of glutamate.

      Has an anti-oxidant, anti-inflammatory effect.

      And is a reversible voltage gated calcium channel blocker.

      My take is acutely, I think pretty much everyone if not everyone with cochlear injury will benefit, but chronically it would depend on how much inflammation and glutamate hyperexcitability effects you have. I suspect it will have at least some effect with many people and a great effect for others.

      Sound seems to be pushing the glutathione perioxide induction effects so they see this as at least one of the primary effects they are interested in (has a high presence in the cochlea and the drug has good cochlear penetrance).

      Other thoughts?

      To add to this, since the above might not have answered your question @Diesel. It seems like the drug's effects on Meniere's are two fold: anti-inflammatory and vascular (calcium channel blockers can regulate blood pressure) perhaps working in synergy.
       
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    16. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      Do you think this could mean that with this treatment and also one of the other synapse treatments the Hough pill might become redundant?
       
    17. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Maybe? Or they may even have synergistic effects. Who knows?

      Hough is probably safer if you have certain conditions like hypotension but thus far Sound Pharmaceuticals hasn't shown any safety issues (but they probably didn't have patients with vascular insufficiency etc.).
       
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    18. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      Interesting times ahead indeed.
       
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    19. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Because of the COVID-19 trials for this drug, I think we will get pretty good additional safety data soon as well as an anecdotal idea to what degree it might help the more chronic tinnitus cases. IE how many sufferers of tinnitus and to what extent are we dealing with things like inflammation and glutamate hyperexcitabilty on top of structural damage.

      It's for sure individual/case by case but at least we could get more data.
       
    20. Pitseleh

      Pitseleh Member

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Related to glutamate, I imagine that would also help people with tinnitus who take benzos, allowing them to get more tinnitus relief while at the same time being able to taper gently.
       
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    21. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I had the same speculation but I was thinking more of the people who have increased tinnitus from tolerance/withdrawal. But no one knows (yet) of course.
       
    22. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      I absolutely agree with you that this is an individual/case by case scenario of how SPI-1005 benefits a patient. I do think there will be big benefits from SPI-1005 in many cases, even if it doesn't totally relieve someone's tinnitus for example. I would also be interested in seeing how well other ear treatments work when SPI-1005 is used beforehand. I am wondering whether other treatments will work better and also be easier to administer once the inflammation has been treated by SPI-1005.

      COVID-19 benefits SPI-1005 greatly and in fact it is probably an unexpected benefit from an unfortunate outcome. Obviously this extra data/information will help greatly and as a result I really think that this will mean there is a great deal of clarity around its outcomes when it is inevitably released too.
       
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    23. ASilverLight
      In pain

      ASilverLight Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably noise, stress and a neck injury.
      Genuine question. I know reactive tinnitus is a huge debate, but do you think - if it is hyperacusis - it is also due to lingering inflammation? If so, could SPI-1005 possibly help the reactivity?
       
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    24. serendipity1996
      No Mood

      serendipity1996 Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown but suspect noise-induced
      I think this is a very reasonable possibility.
       
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    25. weab00
      Alone

      weab00 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      depression-ville
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise, whiplash; 08/20 H
      I think that's the current theory. Type II afferent pain fibers became inflamed and send pain signals to the brain. The brain is trying to protect itself from further damage and uses pain as a distress signal without regard for its potential psychological effects. People generally heal over time because their ears become less inflamed over time, but can suffer setbacks from loud noises which reinflames the ears. At least that's my understanding of it.

      Going off that explanation, I do think this has great potential to help loudness hyperacusis and noxacusis sufferers since cochlear inflammation plays a big part in the injury/re-injury process.
       
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    26. ASilverLight
      In pain

      ASilverLight Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably noise, stress and a neck injury.
      Yeah, my issue is definitely not pain or even regular noise being too loud, but my issue is the severe reactivity/fluctuations of my tinnitus which are very hard to pinpoint, but are probably due to noise and neck issues.

      I'd be okay if my tinnitus stayed at baseline, so if SPI-1005 could help with that I'd be okay until a real proven cure comes along.

      I guess we'll see.
       
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    27. 100Hz

      100Hz Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise exposure
      I hope in theory it could calm cochlear inflammation very quickly after a setback. What I don't think it will do though is stop the actual setbacks in the first place which would need cochlea regeneration drugs.

      SPI-1005 could be a sort of 'setback bomb blast pill' in my mind.

      If the after effects of a setback could be stopped with a pill then that could fix 95% of what noxacusis is and how it affects people in such a devastating way. Imagine being able to take a pill and carry on with life instead of having to go and isolate in silence and pain for weeks at a time.
       
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    28. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      Would it be fair to say if when you take prednisone, you see a large difference, then that's like an indicator that SPI-1005 would help, and likewise, if prednisone does not help, this would not do much? I ask because prednisone does basically nothing for me.
       
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    29. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I don't think so at all. They have very different mechanisms of action. If you have inflammation from immune cell recruitment and volume/pressure expansion Prednisone is more likely to help. SPI-1005 is better for glutamate hyperexcitabilty, oxidative stress etc.

      Also, oral steroids don't have great cochlear penetrance (SPI-1005 is unique for an oral med in that it does) and intratympanic steroids apparently have a polarity problem which makes their cochlear penetrance highly variable.

      In addition, inflammation is incredibly complex even when the cause is more clear. I can give you a veterinary example of what I mean:

      IMHA is a condition in dogs (and cats) where the immune system destroys their red blood cells causing a severe anemia that may result in blood transfusions and death if not treated.

      Some dogs respond to Prednisone others have no response and need Cyclosporine or Mycophenolate. This is despite the fact that the disease involves similar auto immunity and inflammation in each set of dogs.
       
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    30. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      This is reassuring and your treatment knowledge is first rate.
       
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