Suicidal

I totally agree with @linearb you need to find your own path and what works for you, I have the most utter respect for his decision to stay on a benzo....I only warn others about the dangers of this drug, as I was not aware that it could do so much harm.....that it can trap you so to speak, if you are given informed consent and you know the pros and cons than everybody can make their own decisions. @John Mahan

if you read my detailed post clonezepam worked in lowering my tinnitus but also made it worse and caused me other health problems....not just a spike...the correlation for me is I hit tolerance on the dosage.... I started not sleeping, I had numbness on my face, I had pins and needles in my hand, I had bladder issues, yes I thought I had MS, wrong it was all interdose withdrawal but I did not know it at the time...

I had several seizures when I was placed into cold turkey as drs told me it was not from clonazepam on such a low dose...so I know what I am talking about....finally the drs who dismissed it as a tolerance issue now know it was the benzo that caused all my issues, yes I had tinnitus before, not burning skin that you cry nightly in pain, not sleep wake frequent seizure activity, not inner vibrations do I need to list the other symptoms.....truth be known if I could of stayed on a benzo with no side effects I would have.

I would of reinstated if it did not cause me issues but it did and there's thousands of us on benzobuddies that can not take these drugs....every drug has it's pros and cons, I am not anti benzo i just think it should be prescribed with informed consent....please take the time to read christy huff a cardiologist and her short term use of the drug xanax, she is on Twitter.....it can be a life saver but as the saying goes you could be also dancing with the devil if you are not careful on this drug. I know how horrendous tinnitus is so I do understand why people take these drugs, I was one of them..

..I don't have the answers, my intentions are good, I am not posting to argue about drug use just to inform be mindful of the dangers of this class of drug It can be an angel but quickly turn to the devil speaking from my own experience....I just hope and pray for safer long term drug treatment, or any treatment that will give us a cure or any bloody relief from this horrendous condition....I hope everybody finds the path they need to follow to deal with tinnitus even if that includes benzo use.

 

@GoatSheep
I am sorry to know the difficulties that you went through. However, not everyone is the same. Allen is going through a very difficult time and I can fully understand because I have been there. When tinnitus reaches severe levels and this is sustained it can force a person to do something in this case commit suicide, that they wouldn't normally contemplate if they were not in such a state of distress.

I have helped to counsel people on the telephone with tinnitus and have spoken to Allen a few times. I know his situation quite well. I know people that have had severe tinnitus and have been admitted into an NHS hospital here in the UK (not a private facility) and all of them have done well.

The help and support that people have shown towards Allan at this forum is well intentioned and good. However, I believe he needs specialist care and should be admitted into hospital, before he does serious harm to himself because the excruciating tinnitus, which he alone has to endure is seriously affecting the balance of his mind. As well intentioned as you think you are, please refrain from telling people not to seek professional medical help, even if that means being admitted into a psychiatric hospital.

Michael

 

Could you point me toward a post where you share or tell me here how much you were taking and how long it took for you to start having issues. I’ve currently been on for 2 months. Wanting to stop, but taking care of my kids without sleep and functioning all around has me scared to come off as my tinnitus was so loud before.

 

Hi John, there actually is a big correlation between the use of benzos and tinnitus...many people will get tinnitus from benzo use....I have read this on posts on bb plus the ashton manual covers this topic as one of the longer lasting or permanent deficits of benzo use.......once again this doesn't happen to everyone but the correlation was made way before my benzo use....I only worry if the benzo pushed me to the edge what life saving techniques do I have left to turn too....I came to Tinnitus Talk for support and I have got that and I thank God people are willing to share this information with me.

I just hope these other strategies continue to work for me because the benzo unfortunately did not....like I said benzo use can be a godsend but it needs to be used with caution.....I am glad it offers relief to so many people....but there is plenty of people in the same boat as me....I just hope that boat doesn't sink.....

 

Benzo addiction is pure HELL like no others.

 

Yes it is fishbone, I am also extremely grateful to you for reaching out to me and passing on your words of wisdom if it wasn't for the kindness of yourself and others including @linearb I would of thought I was going crazy

 

The addiction, and then tapering was by far the ugliest and most HELL bent affliction, I faced in my life.

 

Yeah it's no fun but I've done it twice and if the need arises I will grin and bear it again.

What's another 14-16 months of tapering :-P?

 

@Star64 -- I've been meaning to let you know I ran across a very interesting POST a couple weeks ago on BB (BenzoBuddies), and which I thought you might find interesting. This woman's experience (edited snippet below) has similarities to mine, in that she began to make much better progress healing after having her metal fillings removed. She also did some other things, which you can read more on if you click on her thread. But it appears that in some instances, amalgam or metal removal can greatly facilitate benzodiazepine withdrawal.

I found her account interesting because I was able to make a significant step in my own health when I removed several amalgam fillings, metal crowns, and a root-canaled tooth from my mouth many years ago. My wife kept commenting for the next several weeks that my brain was working so much better in many ways. It seems that as goes the brain, so goes tinnitus, and I've wondered how many people on this forum might be helped (perhaps considerably) if they were to remove metals, or address other problematic things that they were fine with before getting tinnitus.
..................................

I wanted to pop in quickly and say it took me 6 years to heal. ...... I was the most horrific case I had ever seen. I was poly drugged after 1 panic attack. I spent 14 months in and out of a psych ward, temporarily lost my nursing career, gave birth with over 150 sx and so much more. ...... After 4.5 years I was still very debilitated but was able to return to work 2 days a week. I spent the next 1.5 years slowwwwwwwly healing and never believing that some of the remaining acute like symptoms would go away...

I also believe that we must look at other causes. I believe the drugs were just the last nail in the coffin for me. I had toxic breast implants, metal fillings, etc. Once I had the implants removed and the metal out of my mouth I began to heal rapidly. However, I do not want anyone to read this and assume all of my issues were from them. I had the implants and fillings for more than 15 years and my symptoms did NOT occur until the doctors poisoned me. However, I believe the overload on my system having had these things plus the drugs caused a cascade of events...​

 

I just remembered this story I ran across last year, which I posted on this thread: Metal in Mouth Causing Tinnitus

Patient Success Story:

“I had been experiencing tinnitus for about 3-4 years. It concerned me as it was getting louder as time went on. I had an earwax problem at that time and thought ear cleaning would also help with the tinnitus but it did not. I started having my amalgam fillings removed quadrant by quadrant. It wasn’t until the last quadrant of mercury fillings were removed that I noticed any changes in the tinnitus. Days later, I was just about ready to doze off to sleep when I realized there was no ringing in my ear, just beautiful silence.”

During this patient’s clinical evaluation, it was noted that her galvanic (electrical) current was much higher than normal in several of her mercury fillings. Simply reducing the galvanic current(s) by replacing the mercury fillings with tooth colored restorations made all the difference in the world for this patient. (Visit our website article entitled, Is There a Battery in Your Mouth?)​

 

Below is a pretty remarkable story which touches on a connection between mercury amalgam fillings, tinnitus, depression, and suicidal thoughts. -- I've come to believe that no matter how we initially got tinnitus (or end up in benzodiazepine withdrawal), there can be any number of other "contributing factors" that can either keep things from improving, or possibly even make worse over time.

My Mercury Story
In the mid 90s, despite being athletic and energetic, I began experiencing various health ailments. These ailments worsened and grew in number year-by-year. By 2000, I had acquired 17 specific physical ailments ranging from fatigue to immune weakness to constant ringing in my ears. I could only work about 4 hours per day and had to take daily naps. I knew that something was seriously wrong.

I finally stumbled upon the cause of my problems while speaking to a friend about her health issues. She told me she had Chronic Fatigue and had healed herself after 5 years of visiting doctors and getting nowhere. She told me that she had her amalgam ("silver") dental fillings removed one-by-one, as she could afford it, and it had changed her from a bed-ridden state to a normal, working person. She told me something no dentist ever had:

Amalgam dental fillings contain mercury, the world's most toxic, non-radioactive metal. ... I started conducting research on the Internet and found that I was not alone. Many other people were suffering just as I was and they had determined the problem was their dental fillings as well.

After spending numerous hours researching this issue, I had my amalgam fillings removed in couple weeks and my life changed forever, and it happened virtually overnight. A few years later, I realized that not only had my physical symptoms gone away, but a number of phobias vanished as well. My relationships improved, I became more social, my memory improved dramatically, and I realized how life is supposed to be lived.

Now, looking back, I realize that I lived most of my life with a number of negative personality traits and emotional ailments that were actually caused by mercury. My bad memory, extreme shyness, very low self esteem, fear of commitments (especially in relationships), history of suicidal thoughts and fear of confrontations is now gone, not to mention horrible depression, and all of these changes have dramatically improved the quality of my life.​

 

I don't have a position about benzos. I think if you have depression or anxiety but don't have tinnitus at all, I suggest to try something else (first).

But, if tinnitus is severe 24/7 and nothing is helping, then what?

I didn't want to try it before but now I am desperate. Not to treat depression but desperate to reduce the tinnitus. Is there any hope at all that could happen? My GP would not prescribe me one when I inquired though.

Tinnitus to me is a dual physical problem, brain-based and ears. I don't like that people try to emphasize it as mental or mental health issues. That is a result when it's loud and intrusive. The reason it is loud and intrusive is a malfunctioning brain and auditory system damage of some kind. I don't know if benzos can treat that but melatonin slowed down my tinnitus tones but the side effects were bad - dizziness and drowsiness but not inducing sleep. But, I am pretty sure it played a factor in reducing the speed of the tinnitus tones. So, affecting the brain in some way does something. The question is can a benzo help more than it harms?

 

As I write this after two suicide "practices' yesterday I write this because I need to.

I see no hope for my life. No joy. No life other than existing. This new level of tinnitus is with me everywhere, loud and invasive. How on earth can I go about living this life of abject misery?

I feel like my life is over. There is no point other than to exist, to work so that I provide for my family, every day ending in misery, wishing it was all over. I'm alive but i am not living.

Can you will yourself to die?
If I ask the Universe to kill me will it deliver?
Is there a God and is he even listening?

 

1 is. The other two are 15 and 13.

 

The most scientific consensus is that the difference is caused by the type of damage sustained, typically, if you only have missing/dead stereocilia (as would happen during the normal aging process), you would experience hearing loss but no tinnitus, on the other end, if the damage happens to be neuropathy you would then experience both hearing loss to the affected nerves/synapses AND tinnitus.

There is no special evolution mechanism that would let us hear the tinnitus and others not hear it, or some "gateway" part in our brain, that's theorycrafting bullocks that's not substantiated by any scientific evidence thus far, whereas biopsies done on rodent specimens and cochlear implant candidates corroborate the neuropathy hypothesis.

In all fairness, because there is no such thing as a perfect hearing apparatus, we all have tinnitus to some degree, the real question is whether or not it's perceptible (which, again comes to the degree of damage and perceived loudness), put anyone in a noise isolation chamber for a long enough time and they will all be experiencing some degree of subjective tinnitus as no other noise would mask it. As such, something you cannot ear over background noise in a silent room (10 dB to 25 dB on average) wouldn't be problematic to anyone, whereas something you'd hear over, your typical electronic appliance (such as a television) would likely have some impact on your overall quality of life, it's all about perception.

 

How do you "measure perfectly with no cochlear damage", you do not even know what you are talking about, you CANNOT measure or ascertain in any way, cochlear damage from a hearing test, in fact, the only way at this time would be through a (potentially quite damaging) biopsy.

I shall add that hearing test do not perfectly measure hearing, for starters most places only have calibration up to 8Khz and therefore cannot/do not test for higher frequencies which means, just like me by the way, your hearing test can show up perfectly fine while you still have tinnitus, (ie. the human hearing goes up to 20 kHz (and in very insignificantly rare cases, slightly higher), but hearing tests typically only measure from 200 Hz to 8 kHz), there is also the fact that hearing tests do not test all octaves and only have a very limited examination when it comes to speech/words recognition.

All these facts mean that hearing test only significantly measure a fraction of the extent of human hearing, (less than 30% in fact), hence why people show up with "hidden hearing loss" it's only hidden so much as we can't/don't measure it.

Though as I have previously said, a hearing test has NOTHING to do with examining damage to the cochlear, in fact the closest thing that's part of a hearing test that may possibly indicate cochlear damage, and which by the way is quite imprecise in that regard, is the bone conduction test (which then again, doesn't test anywhere near the high frequencies).

In conclusion:
Please shove your junk science and so called facts somewhere else or to someone who actually doesn't know about the topic and don't waste my (or anyone else's) time.

 

Are you so full of it that you don't even know the correlation between GABA and its antagonistic neurotransmitter (Glutamate by the way), its mechanisms are well known and observed, so much so that there is a plentiful amount of scientific studies on the subject and that all GABA acting SSRI quote tinnitus amongst the (quite extensive list of) side effects,

the short, layman version being that if you take a drug targeting a receptor (such as GABA), this receptor will deregulate (the same way it would with Dopamine releases, Dopamine D2 receptors and addiction) and therefore you would need more of the drug/molecule to achieve the same effect, eventually that drug will no longer show any beneficial effects after a specific period of chronic exposure (which can last years).

Because brain chemistry is a delicate balance, if your GABA receptors get overstimulated, more glutamate is going to be produced to achieve as close as a proper balance as possible, once you stop taking your GABA targeting drug however, not only the body isn't producing enough GABA (why would it, it had a replacement for it in the form of your GABA targeting drug!) but it also has its GABA receptors deregulated (meaning there are fewer and thus GABA produces less effect), and it produces more Glutamate which (as I kept repeating because this is important) happens to be GABA's antagonist (and thus shows a reverse effect to GABA, as demonstrated by existing mechanistic data).

I certainly hope you can guess where this is going.

Now if you take a closer look at what GABA does (I will let you research this on your own, you may actually learn something!), try imagining how your brain would function with little (to none) available and you can start understanding how the plethora of (by the way very well understood and observed) side effects occur once withdrawal happens.

I could go on and list those as well as all the associated studies, but quite frankly, I have wasted enough of my time lecturing you on the basic of brain chemistry and the understanding of the endocrine system.

As a final note:
If you do not know what you are talking about, please avoid posting about it, it'll do you much good.

 

Indeed there is, but John is (or should I say has been for a while now) shoving so called unsubstantiated "scientific facts" to our faces, I have been ignoring those (and his associated posts) until now but this getting utterly ridiculous and quite misleading.

We are talking of someone who believes a "hearing test" can assess cochlear damage, what would you expect?

 

Star,

What I hear is kind of a circular argument and agreement of that argument in this thread. Same from Chinmoku and others. Demonization of a particular med and in fairness, they qualify and say 'for them'. You conceded that not all are affected in the same way. Addiction, dreadful withdrawal, tinnitus onset or worsening. And yet, you were consistently on that med in the first place. You wouldn't have been on that med had you not been in a dark place. But you were on the med for a reason. It helped you on some level even though you didn't fully understand the longer term consequence. I believe the benzo causing tinnitus thesis is a little thin. Many people with anxiety disorder are predisposed to tinnitus because of their brain chemistry. Benzo's overall improve the life of someone with anxiety disorder as they did you or they wouldn't be on the market...a health threat.

The best post I have read as I believe almost everybody misses the precise point except linearb's insightful post.
It can't be said better. A benzo saved his life, fraught with all the downside. As he processed the good with the bad and chose that path for a reason. Btw, as did you Star. You don't know if a better path existed or exists today for you because you didn't take it. Neither did I though I have fought hard to ward off any addiction to a Benzo by seeking a level of harmony in my life including doing community service to help elderly with their hearing challenges.

There is no cure for tinnitus and all we can do is choose a path of consequences in an effort to cope and survive.

 

I would say that if you are in a state of heightened distress, you might as well try Benzos, at your own risk, and knowing what it implies.

Make sure to go on a as needed basis to not fall into the trap of addiction (realistically speaking, I would avoid going over one intake a week, the dosage isn't so much an issue as the frequency it is used).

You should also know that chronically using Benzos to alleviate tinnitus is only postponing the issue, there will come a point where they become ineffective, though if it's a choice between this and killing yourself, it might be worth the risk, it's really up to you.

I would normally not advise taking Benzos unless it's to be used in extreme circumstances.

 

In fairness to you John apparently as a scientist you have forgotten to do you research on this topic, as I did before I started taking this drug, I have to live with the consequences of that as like some famous singer said,

AND LIFE IS LIKE A PIPE AND I'M A TINY PENNY ROLLING UP THE WALLS INSIDE

research what singer and song this is from and I'll give you back some brownie points

 

It's from Amy Winehouse's Back to Black
A great song (poorly recorded though, there is a lot of sibilance in the track, sadly she no longer with us to have it recorded again :/ )

 

Not advising using Benzo's Math? Really? AD's are worse.
And have to laugh at lost and confused Autumnly who gave you a winner for your post. She recommends Clonazepam in certain instances. No she doesn't...she posted her boilerplate BS to the contrary. Yes she does. No she doesn't. Yes she does. No she doesn't.
Multiple personality disorder??

Math, you have the stage brother. A person just contracts tinnitus. It is unbearably loud. All the person thinks about is suicide. His/her life is in your hands. What do you suggest?

 

Wait a minute Star. You did your research before going on the med that is causing you all this distress?
That doesn't seem to comport with any sort of logical deduction does it? More like what linearb stated.

Btw, I did my research. This is precisely why I am not stuck down the long lonely road you are.

 

Thanks again Lane for all your help, I have actually spoken with this lady what a horrific experience she had with benzos. I am also going to look at getting rid of my metal fillings, I have a couple, have been going to do that for a few years but I dislike going to the dentist because of the noise...

I have also started acupuncture and I think it is helping, plus I am taking curcumin 600mg, the 1200mg dose was causing me to bruise easily...I must be making some improvement, I am getting a bit more vocal and a little cheeky, but hey that's a good thing right

 

Yes you did waste your time. You lecture me? That is rich. More like you do what you always do and waste bandwidth with your blather and butchery of the language. I am well familiar with the interaction between AD's and tinnitus and why. I would never go near them with tinnitus in particular and precisely why I never have. How about you Math? Have you made this mistake?

 

Star, if you get rid of your gold fillings, will you send them to me? I could have them melted down and make something nice out of them.
Thanks.

 

Let's drill down on that if we may.
How can a person pass a hearing test with perfect frequency response from lowest to highest frequencies with no hyperacusis with a damaged cochlea?

Similarly if hidden hearing loss can't be quantified, how do you know a cochlea is damaged?

Can you explain that?

 

Citation please.
(I have tinnitus and I'm supposed to "only" have dead hair cells)

 

Because you happen to have a condition with no cure does not mean you should thread an even worse/harsher path, the "stage brother" you describe was me in my first 23 days of tinnitus where it was severe and unbearably loud (60 dB of high pitched 14 kHz noise in your ear, no ability to focus whatsoever or read over a single sentence) (I still get severe spikes for some reason but my mindset has changed since then), all I could think about was either killing myself or how bad the noise was.

Even then, without much of an ability to think straight, I knew better than to overuse Benzo (though I did use Prazepam for the first time in my life then, to my surprise it didn't have much of an effect on my tinnitus), that said I was very much aware of the dangers before tinnitus happened, in fact it increased my depression.

I didn't understand why back then, but in a hindsight now that I gained back the ability to form proper complex thoughts, I figured that mixing high amount of Prednisolone (corticosteroids) with Benzodiazepines isn't such a good idea (corticosteroids act on adrenals).

(Fun fact, Corticosteroids have had a much larger effect in making my tinnitus more manageable, but that's not something you can take on the long term either unless you like having panic attacks, brittle bones, decreased muscle mass and a dysfunctional adrenal gland), hence why I tapered it off after day 30, knowing it may likely make things worse (which it did, for a time), I haven't taken any since then as it shows no long term benefits after 30 days following a noise trauma (and even then most benefits would occur in the first 72 hours, but I wasn't taking any chances)

Using drugs is all about tradeoffs, some are more worth it than others, a solution to unbearable pain however is not to add in extra pain or extra ailments on top, that's more or less what Benzodiazepines give you, temporary "short" (as in, it can last for a few years if you are lucky), relief until withdrawal symptoms inevitably kick in and, as unbelievable as it sounds, make your tinnitus seem insignificant.

Sadly there is no treatment (other than palliative, (and possibly Neuromod's Lenire?)) nor cure for tinnitus, that's a fact, one I am not arguing with, that said, the way you respond to your tinnitus directly affects (to a degree) its perception and thus your quality of life, therefore CBT has a place in managing tinnitus and having a positive mindset, something I achieved even back when I still had chronic severe tinnitus (even though it's the hardest thing I've done in my life), is possible and goes a long way to set your path to "recovery" (as in, as good a recovery one might expect with where science is currently at), and leads the path to habituation.

Is this better than or equivalent to a cure? Of course not
Can everyone achieve this? I wouldn't dare presume so.

That said, giving this a try doesn't cost a dime and at a point where you have nothing to lose, why not? It takes taking it one step at a time, until you resume a life that's as close as possible as the one you've had before tinnitus, and eventually, while it won't ever be the same, you may eventually get better and get some if not most of your life back.

Negativity cannot and does not help you, all it does is letting tinnitus win; that's what I believe at least. How long will I be able to stick to this dogma? I can't tell, I have my own doubts everyday, especially when I get a severe spike, but I struggle and go on, for how long, I don't know yet.

One thing I do know is that trading a condition for a drug that may likely not work and will eventually make things worse, isn't worth it, because there is no treatment or cure doesn't mean you should shove any possible medicine down your throat just to see if it has a positive outcome, people need to be informed of drugs and their effects before going through with something that may be destructive.

You never know how good your life was and how much you'd take it for granted until you have elements of it stripped away from you.