Elon Musk’s Neuralink Looking to Treat Tinnitus

And how much would a single sugery cost...

 

It would no doubt be very expensive, especially considering neurosurgeons pretty much make the most in the medical field and it would be a specialized surgery. Also a lot of neurosurgeons practice at specific type of hospitals, neurological centers. There is no telling how many years it's going go take to convince insurance companies to pay for a specialized surgery.

I heard a statistic that it takes the medical field 18 years on average to make new surgery/treatments readily available to the public.

 

I would just like to say I am not seriously looking into this nor would I be the first or 1,000th guinea pig at that lol I just like to know the extent of things going on in our world. I just read this article today how a man who was paralyzed 12 years ago is now able to stand up and start to walk again with his thoughts using a brain to spine implant. It’s quite amazing stuff, and ill add I’d trust the team who developed this WAY more than Elon, but it’s just all very intriguing.

I don’t think he plans on doctors actually doing the Neuralink procedure. It’s robot run, that’s one of their biggest pitches for it.

 

That is pretty awesome, I can't imagine the joy that man experienced. Can't say I blame you, I don't think I would ever be brave enough to go through a procedure like that to be honest.

That is very interesting how they plan to use robots, not sure it would make it cheaper though. I would be very shocked if surgeries would be approved in the absence of a neurosurgeon in the room to monitor the procedure. Kind of like how a NP can treat patients, but has to practice under a MD for safety legal reasons. I guess at minimum you still have an anesthesiologist, a CRNA, nurses, and possible a family doctor for post op evaluations.

 

Or Elon decides to turn on subscription models to prop up his Twitter losses.

‘Your eyesight has been turned off, for $49.99 per month you can enjoy the world with your own eyes again!’

 

Given a cochlear implant costs £35,000-40,000 I would think the surgery would be 3 figures i.e. >£100,000. What may keep the costs to a 'not totally out of everyone's reach' is the fact it's robot assisted. Still the price of the chip is going to be high. This is the benefit/risk of a trial. If the treatment is effective, it's FREE or even paid for. Don't overlook the possible benefits of a clinical trial.

That's depressing, but again given cochlear implants were developed in the late 1960s, it sounds about right. I hope this won't apply to surgeries like extracochlear implants.

As for whether you like Elon or not, well I think he is quite detached from the science side.

 

Hey, but perhaps it'll come with a discounted* blue checkmark on Twitter! Gotta leverage that synergy.

Only valid for life-time subscriptions. Please note: life-time subscriptions are non-refundable. Furthermore, Neuralink can not be held liable in case of technical, psychological, or neurological malfunctioning and any health issues that might arise from said occurrences.

 

I know many are hesitant, to say the absolute least, about this development, especially with Mr. Musk behind it.

So remove him for a minute mentally, and put in his place a top neurosurgeon researcher, or a top otologist researcher, whatever. It’s not unrealistic to do that because those are the people he will have working behind the scenes for this to have success.

Anyway, I honestly feel, with how complex the brain is and then the conditions of tinnitus, hyperacusis, noxacusis. If someone were to ask me what intervention do I think could truly take it all away and cure each and every one of these ailments, it would be something like this. Something that goes into the brain, can read neural activity, diagnose the glitching, troubleshoot those glitches, and boom. Welcome to a literal rewired auditory system to brain, where there is silence with no negative reaction to sound. It’s not unrealistic in my opinion, especially watching a man walk after not walking for 12 years.

Furthermore, if those in the tinnitus research world aren’t presenting anything astounding in the near future (minus Dr. Shore’s device), I will entertain reading about and keeping up on any possible intervention.

 

"Looks like you are late on payment on your Neuralink subscription plan. We will be turning your tinnitus back on."

 

In my opinion, the trouble with Musk is that his claims are particularly unreliable. So if what one believes to be the state of this type of research comes primary from Musk or Musk-controlled entities, then ignoring his relationship to Neuralink is probably not advisable, even for a minute.

Indeed, if the interest is in this type of research in general, then I would say that a reasonable approach would be to ignore and exclude Musk, his companies, and his involvement entirely, and look at what remains. If the progress appears compelling excluding Musk’s claims and prognostications, then I would be inclined to pay attention.

 

I would pay no attention to this unless Musk opens a human clinical trial for tinnitus.

 

Let’s see how the current human clinical trials work. I imagine this is just for safety and basic connectivity.

 

What do we know about these trials in terms of inclusion criteria? Even though safety is a primary outcome, surely they must be trialled for some specific indications? They are only in the USA, so I'm out the Neurolink loop.

 

I don't know if this discussion is still of interest to you but
did you see that Musk got clearance from the FDA and the recruitment phase opened on September 19th?
Neuralink said it wants to implant 11 chips by the end of the year and 22,000 chips by 2030.
The operation is so delicate and precise that a robot surgeon is needed.
Ah...they also revealed the prices:

"Each implant will cost the company around 10 thousand dollars. Neuralink plans to ask its patient-customers a much higher figure: around 40 thousand dollars."

 

That's interesting. Similar price to a cochlear implant. Still no trials on tinnitus so little interest in this at the moment.

 

Yes, no studies for any specific condition, they talk about "any neurological and brain condition".

For them, the ideal candidate (they said) must be under 30 years old and have all 4 limbs paralyzed.

I think this is a "marketing" choice and a desire to show the enormous potential of the chip... simply because a completely paralyzed young man is certainly more newsworthy (and is also objectively visible) than subjective and "invisible" conditions, not because it's easy.

Obviously no illusions or false hopes but I'm curious to see how things will develop.

 

Between Neuralink and DBS surgery, I'm curious which one has a faster pathway to success. DBS surgery is already approved for many treatments so in a way it's already ahead. If they figure out how to make it work for tinnitus, I imagine it would be quicker to approve than Neuralink (which I think was approved for a 6-year trial to test its safety.)

• Neuralink - 6 years at a minimum, plus add more time for developing it for tinnitus.
• DBS - Already approved. No solution for tinnitus yet BUT successful surgeries have been reported, plus a new trial is happening at this time.

 

There are actually two trials happening for Neuralink...

 

Specifically for tinnitus?

 

I don't know how the Neurolink is powered, but the DBS implant in the chest is good for up to 5 years; but make sure insurance covers the replacement, it costs $50,000 just for the implant (says Medtronic).

 

I’m sorry. I meant to write that there are two DBS trials. My mistake.

 

So Neuralink was approved for a 6-year trial to test its safety. I think they are still looking for candidates and haven't installed the device yet but once it is installed, it will simply sit there for 6 years basically to see how safe it is to have in someone's head. Did I get this right?

So does that mean that they won't be able to make any progress in developing treatments using their device until the 6 year safety trial is over? I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if they will be making any progress in their research and development during these 6 years for various treatments. Seems that maybe they can do so in a limited way but they won't be able to really test their research and findings until 6 years are up and their device is deemed safe to use/test (fingers crossed).

 

I feel as if the trial is for the hardware component of the chip. They would certainly be able to improve software in those six years. It would be interesting to see if they still need 6 year long trials for implanting the chip in the brain, and who's to say they cannot be trialed all at the same time.

 

Elon Musk claims that the first human has received a Neuralink brain implant.

→ Elon Musk claims the first human patient has received a Neuralink brain implant

I hadn't read this before, but apparently he also claims that the monkeys who received the implant previously were all terminal and didn't pass away due to the Neuralink implant. Sounds sketchy.

We'll see where it goes, I suppose. If it ever does prove effective against tinnitus, hopefully more companies will develop similar tech.

 

Neuralink is not a discussion worth pursuing for many a year. For brain implants, follow the DBS and Neurosoft threads here as they are in clinical trials for tinnitus!

 

If the monkeys had passed away from Neuralink, the FDA wouldn't let him test it on humans.

 

Reminder that this process involves MRI imaging. That's 20 minutes of 105-110 dB.