Suicidal

I know you don't give a flying fuck about silence, but I do, and you're disrespecting what I value in life. If you go so far as to say you don't give a flying fuck about what I consider precious, then I don't give a flying fuck about you and your fucking affliction. If you want to incite violence with a man that only wants to die, I'm all for it, and I hope I never find you in real life because you're a fucking asshole. This community is torn to shreds because of insensitive people like you, and I hope you disappear from the face of this Earth as soon as possible.

Exactly brother. And then this @AnthonyMcDonald guy comes and tells me that he has catastrophic multitonal tinnitus yet he sleeps like a baby. What a load of bullshit.

He still keeps telling everyone that their problem is anxiety and NOT tinnitus, and praising XEN1101 and Susan Shore's device like they are the end all, be all for tinnitus.

Something is completely wrong with that guy, and if that's not his tinnitus, then it's SURELY his lack of empathy.

Who the hell is giving hope here? If anything, he's dismissing everything I said and calling me stupid for thinking about such decision, just because his life is different than mine. I can assure you it enraged me rather than giving me hope.

I'm on a taper, because I want to try to upregulate some GABA receptors and maybe this can help lowering the loudness of my tinnitus. But, as I taper, the less I sleep, and the louder my tinnitus. What do you think I should do?

I'm not selling anything brother. I'm telling you THIS was the cause of my tinnitus, as well as many others who have had tinnitus because of cannabis withdrawal, and also benzodiazepine withdrawal, it's not all too uncommon, and the more years you consume the substance, the worse the effects. For me, it was 10 years of constant daily usage, and that's a long time and intense usage. That's why I want to go the "taper off" route, but as I lose sleep and my tinnitus loudness increases, the less I'm inclined to... Sadly, and supposedly, one needs to get ALL the benzos out of their system in order for GABA receptors to upregulate. And even with my severe "normal" tinnitus, I can't sleep with it. (Like the @AnthonyMcDonald guy can). If I can't sleep, I'm basically dead. So I'm basically at a crossroads and don't know what to do.

 

Do you take them daily? That shit is horrific poison and can make you worse. It lowered my sound tolerance to beyond zero.

Thank you Michael.

Unfortunately the amount of damage done to my system is horrific. Anxiety has nothing to do with how bad it is. No matter how much I distract, it is still beyond catastrophic from the second I wake up and only gets worse and worse throughout the day. I'm being snuffed out. Benzo use was the worst thing to happen to me. So many people suggest it and doctors push it. It is insane. The worst thing you can do for your body is to take poison and benzos are just that.

All sounds permanently worsen my tinnitus. Even the tiniest of sounds. Like carefully setting glasses down, even when wearing hearing protection, I feel it in my ears.

 

I respect your thinking and your choice but my body is my body. First of all, I have a responsibility towards myself and my suffering and it is my right to want to live with dignity and without suffering.

You might call it selfishness, I call it compassion.

 

Do you have kids?

 

This is not the point. Telling someone who wants to terminate their life because of too much suffering 'do not do it because of children will suffer' will make them feel guilty for doing something that is actually compassionate. This is why it is manipulative. Euthanasia should be a human right for those suffering.

 

I respectfully disagree, that is the entirety of my point. You don’t have kids, feel free to do what you have to do. Without the unique responsibility of parenthood, your needs, including the need to end your pain, are paramount. When you have kids, your needs, desires, joys, health and safety are secondary.

The guilt, as you call it, is exactly what you should feel if you have kids and are considering leaving. If you decide to leave, it should be with the full knowledge of what your choice has wrought for your kids. Maybe it helps you stay anchored enough to power through until they are old enough that your level of responsibility for them decreases.

We are just arguing over values so there is no resolution. Your stance, as I understand it, is that the individual’s right to end pain supersedes their responsibility to protect their children from permanent damage. Mine is that protecting your child supersedes any right to be happy or free of suffering. Never the twain shall meet.

 

Hi Travis, brother. Unfortunately I had to resort to benzos after my cannabis withdrawal (which was extreme) in order to sleep. I understand where you come from, I also wished there could have been another way, and I know they are poison, but it's the ONLY thing that helps me sleep.

I'm tapering off the benzos, but every percent of a milligram I taper, my sleep gets worse and my tinnitus gets worse.

What would you recommend? To continue the taper? Or just live with the benzos until the last day of my life? Sometimes I don't know if I can do without them to be honest, and right now, I'm sure that's the case, sadly...

 

Interesting.

There is a huge difference between cannabis withdrawal and benzo withdrawal. I could definitely believe benzo withdrawal caused or exacerbates your tinnitus.

 

Have you talked with your MD about long term strategies? Unfortunately for me benzos never did anything to the tinnitus, but when I talked to my GP (benzos) and then to a psychiatrist (ADs didn't help either), it was a discussion about long term management, not short term use.

Take care and hang in there. If you are at the end of your rope, the risk calculation for long term dependence on benzos shifts a bit I think. You know we have a lot of people on Tinnitus Talk who have horror stories (enough to scare me) but many other members have used them as part of a long long forever term strategy to make life slightly more tolerable.

For me, I'd consider forever use if it helped, but it would be alongside a direct discussion with my medical providers about how to most safely manage long term use including strategies for increasing, decreasing, changing Rx, and what coming off would look like.

Peace

 

Sorry, @Michael Leigh. No offense intended. I know tinnitus has been a struggle in your life and I’m sorry you’ve had to endure that. Once tinnitus becomes severe, it’s unfortunately an anchor that weighs us down in life. All I was trying to say is that I think the term “catastrophic” should be reserved for those rare cases where the sufferer is incompatible with existence essentially. They’re living in closets or imprisoned to their homes. And still, sounds from the outside world penetrate the walls and make them worse, even with protection on.

@Travis Henry has unfortunately reached a catastrophic state, as the “quicksand” sucks at his feet relentlessly. The world, in that state, becomes inhospitable.

I know your tinnitus fluctuates and is severe—and often very severe—and I’m sorry you have to deal with that. On my grading scale, I assumed it wasn’t catastrophic because you had mentioned going to loud places without protection, and no consequences, like that 100 dB arcade and other things. But you’re right—I shouldn’t label. Instead, I should share my words without implicating names or examples. This ain’t a competition. We’re all suffering.

At the same time, it’s wise to make it clear that some people’s tinnitus is incompatible with life as we know it. Sure, they can live, but there might be some folks who are damned to closet living for the rest of their days. If they don’t improve, they don’t have a choice. It’s bizarre that tiny nerves in your ears—smaller than peas, even—can render life impossible. That’s hyperacusis, I guess, or reactive tinnitus, a subset.

Forgive me of my offenses, everyone. For some, the words I choose or way I write may conjure up abysmal thoughts, or make them feel even worse. I’m sorry for that. I feel sad. No one understands us. I know the world doesn’t—the catastrophic folks—and often doesn’t care to, as we’re 1 in a million. Even doctors are to blame for this. I pray to God daily and believe in Jesus Christ. I hope He can help us all to heal or get by.

I swear, some doctors are so bad, though. When it comes to rare conditions, they’re not “in the know,” so to speak, and even offer crap advice. They might as well be Earl, the town mechanic with rolled up sleeves and grease on his chin, chanting doctor-speak. You’d get the same reaction: a non-expert posing as a doctor; someone clueless, making wild guesses, with no idea what they’re doing; that terrible, lazy, dodgy service while tinkering under your “hood.”

Early on in his journey, Travis had severe tinnitus and hyperacusis, but was put on benzos by an Earl for daily use; pills to help with sleep and anxiety. But a good doctor would’ve had the foresight to know that was an error, as those medications are notoriously ototoxic when used for super long periods, damaging the ears. Beforehand, he told the doctor about his ears, but nonetheless, they ended up making his condition a lot worse. Now he’s stuck on benzos and reached tolerance, where withdrawal is happening with increased tinnitus + hyperacusis. Bad service from Earls is a very common trend with rare health problems. I know a lot of people who’ve been messed up permanently with zero accountability.

Some of these doctors are shameful, to be honest. I’ve dealt with them myself. I’ve almost made some big mistakes trusting their advice, and one time, was permanently worsened. It’s good to do independent research. After all, it’s your body and you’re the one whose gotta live with it, not them. Doctors are people, too. Their PhDs don’t make them god-like or all-knowing. Remember that. They’re just as susceptible to errors and ignorance.

One of society’s flaws is how we put certain people on pedestals and forget they’re human, too. And then we’re shocked and letdown when we realize how inferior they are. This goes for all people in all professions: remember that they’re human. And though we’re taught to trust them—the supposed “experts”—it’s always wise to be skeptical and guard ourselves accordingly. Sometimes, doctors are just providing a service or opinion. Unless they have a scan, x-ray, or proof, they might be off the mark.

It’s best to be weary for our own good and watch out for the Earls. It’s an unfortunate truth: often, the Earls of this world destroy us through great deception or lack of insight. Either way, we’re the victims or fools; the ones left holding the bag. Some might say we should’ve known better, but society teaches us to trust them, especially the doctors.

 

I know that we think differently and that is fine, but I think it is wrong that you place your moral judgment on others who are suffering a lot and might have a different set of values, especially in this thread. It is a moral judgment because there is not any rule or law saying that your responsibility towards yourself comes second after your kids, actually there are people that give up their responsibility to their children to social care etc, and that is their right if they feel they cannot take that responsibility for whatever reason, it might be actually best for the children.

Again, in this thread, we need more compassion and less moral judgment.

 

Hi @AfroSnowman.

There's no GP really in my country that understands my situation.

I wouldn't want to use a drug (or drugs) until the end of my life, especially benzos. But if everything comes down to that, sadly, I will have to do it. In the long run, it truly wreaks havoc on your system and leads to many problems over the years. If I could come off without any ill effect (which now is impossible), my GABA receptors could upregulate and my tinnitus could start decreasing.

The huge wall in front of me, is sleeplessness. If I was able to sleep without benzos (and with my tinnitus), I'd be long gone from those drugs and my brain would've started to repair itself a long time ago.

Sadly, I need the drugs to sleep, and I need the sleep to survive. So... there goes nothing.

Thank you for the response though, appreciate it.

 

Well said. I don't normally condone this kind of language but for the person in question it is justified.

 

Did you even read my response? Nowhere did I ever threaten you or insult you. I'm saying that it can be significantly worse and you obviously suffer very much, but it's not the end of the world, in your case I mean. You have some stability, which is a gift. Yeah, I don't have any anxiety anymore, which is why I am able to sleep even with insane brain r*pe, which is why I let you know getting anxiety under control is crucial.

I'm trying to let you know that silence isn't the most important thing in life, and that having a happy, fulfilling life even with catastrophic tinnitus is possible, and here you are threatening me.

You think it's a "load of bullshit" because you haven't experienced what I have. Imagine having a new tone join the cacophony of hell in your head, and a permanent volume increase every time you do something as quiet as chewing food. What small stability I have now is a blessing, and I'm putting things in perspective for you - silence isn't something worth killing yourself over, no matter how much you value it. Especially since we have so many treatments coming soon. Yeah, my tinnitus still is super fucking bad, and if you look at my post history and ask around you'd see that it was extremely horrendous, and still is to an extent.

What do you want people to say? "Poor you, yes, kill yourself?". I was trying to motivate you to try your best to make it to the potential treatments, and here you are attacking me? What's wrong with you?

 

I accept your apology @Jerad. The incident in the arcade on Brighton Palace Pier, was an experiment that was done in 2016, to see whether my ears could tolerate the sound levels. I had no idea what they would be so I carried noise reducing earplugs just in case things become too uncomfortable. I haven't been in the arcade since, although I have walked along the pier in the summer, enjoying my fish & chips, while listening to the sea lapping against the shore.

We all know tinnitus can be mild, moderate and severe. It is greatly affected by stress, because it's intrinsically linked to our mental and emotional wellbeing. If a person also has hyperacusis with or without pain, it can make living with tinnitus worse. If they have other health conditions, it compounds the problem. Taking into account a person's makeup and whether they live with other people, can make life even more difficult. Taking all these factors into consideration, I believe it's impossible to know what another person is feeling, because I am not living their life.

All I can advise is when tinnitus and life becomes too much, seek medical help and try whatever the medical professionals suggest to you. When my ENT consultant prescribed me Clonazepam in 2010, it was a lifesaver because I had reached the end of my tether with loud intrusive tinnitus.

Michael

 

I hate drugs too, but as we are on the suicidal thread, life-long dependence seems better than the alternative So speaking of drugs I hate but use, Zolpidem (Ambien) flat out works and if used responsibly is far far far less dangerous than using benzos. All drugs are bad for you, but chronic stress from sleeplessness is horrible for you too. At least the withdrawal symptoms from long-term Ambien use is mostly just insomnia, none of the horrible benzodiazepine CNS side effects.

Sadly severe tinnitus is life-long life-changing condition and just as with other severe health conditions, there is no shame in using drugs under this situation. Drugs for high blood pressure and cholesterol all have side effects too, but the majority of those over a certain age take them because the benefits outweigh the side effects. We aren't talking about crushing up pills and snorting them for a high, we are talking about using whatever tools are out there to help manage, mitigate, and improve your QoL in what is a horrible situation.

The last thing I would advise is to find a medical professional who will work with you in your country. If your GP isn't the one then do some digging and find someone, maybe a specialist, maybe a psychiatrist, who will.

 

You're right. Thank you, brother.

 

I approve of this message.

 

I thought this thread was for support? Seems more like a warzone, yikes.

 

Hey @Sammy0225, people with differing opinions and perspectives. It's bound to happen but I think for the most part, this thread is supportive.

 

Sometimes people need motivation, as sympathy can only go so far.

 

Plus not to be the optimist, but you are less than a year in. It is quite likely, like >80% likely, that you will feel meaningfully better a year from now than you do today.

So hang in there, this is hard, so you've got to be strong. I just deal with the experience of the moment and try not to get emotional about it. The moment to moment experience is hard enough, if I pile on with mourning what I lost and what I can't do anymore it is too much.

Use every tool you can. If you had cancer you damn well find a way to get to a real specialist that would work with you if your GP wouldn't. Develop a team of medical/phychological professionals you can work with for the long term. Demand this for yourself the same way you'd demand it for someone you love.

And hang in there, this site is littered with success stories of folks that were catastrophic at 9 months and found ways to get their lives back. Sadly I'm not one of them, but mostly it happens.

Last - get sleep! If Ambien is what it takes then get yourself a big old pile of the stuff. When you get sleep you become much more resilient.

Peace

 

To @AnthonyMcDonald:

Leave it to @Michael Leigh to be so clueless that he is quite skeptical about the "success" that @AnthonyMcDonald has reported in regard to being able to sleep in spite of this, which is exactly the sort of real habituation that @Michael Leigh has parroted forth about ad nauseam.

@Michael Leigh's pathetically confused mentality is surely indicated when he dismisses the sort of admirable habituation success @AnthonyMcDonald reported solely because @AnthonyMcDonald has on numerous occasions demonstrated the sheer counterproductive nonsense inherent in @Michael Leigh's advice. This is the only demonstration needed about the lack of character that @Michael Leigh displays.

How unintentionally, amusingly ironic that because of @AnthonyMcDonald's criticisms, @Michael Leigh has actually dismissed the believability of @AnthonyMcDonald's habituation success story, especially when I have been pilloried for suggesting that I have an honest difficulty in achieving this.

So @Michael Leigh, if you agree that @AnthonyMcDonald's report of being able to sleep while having loud tinnitus is "bullshit", then why should anyone believe any of your other commentary about how habituation is so achievable?

In this event, I don't ever want to hear one f**king word from any of you about the utility or feasibility of habituation.

Either @Michael Leigh applauds @AnthonyMcDonald for having gone this far with habituation, or he still calls it "bullshit" and reneges totally (in which case habituation is concluded to be a fraud.)

You can't have it both ways. Either @Michael Leigh applauds @AnthonyMcDonald's habituation success or he utterly dismisses it as "bullshit", in which case there is no reason to take habituation seriously.

 

After 10 months of suffering, I was in a way better state. Sometimes, I even forgot I got tinnitus and my reactivity was very calmed after giving it time and patience.

Unfortunately, that all changed a few days ago when I got the cold and flu. Tinnitus spiked and it reacts to every single sound!

I’m afraid that said spike wasn’t caused by the flu itself, but more by the dumb fact that I took DayQuil and NyQuil to treat the flu symptoms, which each tablet contains 325 mg of Acetaminophen. I took 6 tablets in a course of 24 hours. Oh but guess what? I was in a loud bar two weeks ago for two consecutive hours at 95 dB without hearing protection (accidentally left the hearing protection) and that didn’t have an adverse effect on my tinnitus! Make it make sense.

If this doesn’t calm in two weeks, I unfortunately don’t see any other way around. I used to be joyful and full of life, I just turned 25 years old one week ago but what’s the point of living if I’m a prisoner in my own body 24/7? Even my grandma that takes a bunch of medicines per day and is more than 3 times older than me doesn’t have those kinds of problem! Now I can’t even watch TV thanks to the reactivity and extra tones that gets added.

This is even affecting my job performance (even when working remote), and when tinnitus spikes this heavily I have no other option but stay inside my apartment without having any distractions at all.

 

Why are you asking Travis for advice? You literally gaslight another sufferer, then ask someone who isn't recovering (yet) for advice when there people who have come out of the depths of hell giving you advice?

That is lunacy.

I have extremely bad tinnitus which sounds like a full time whistle going off in my ear which I can hear all the time. When I have bad days, and I do every week, I look at my family who depend on me and I put in those earplugs and continue to go into a dark hole to mine because I love my family and I know some day there will be a treatment that will help us.

I honestly really appreciate both @AnthonyMcDonald and @Michael Leigh posting, as both prove that different roads can lead to the same outcome which is being able to live a better life with this.

 

I have never commented on this thread, but before anyone responds to someone, I feel like some ground rules/understanding should be taken into consideration.

1) No two brains are the same. No two brains react to situations, meds, etc. the same. If something worked for you, please share that, but know it won’t work for everyone and may actually worsen someone, unfortunately. If something did not work for you or worsened you, please share that, but know it actually may have helped or is helping someone else. It’s not fair, I know, but it’s out of our control. Ultimately, each person has the right to make their own decisions to try to better themselves in this awful condition we live in. As for me, I take 0.25mg Ativan a day because it calms my tinnitus/reactivity for a short time. It doesn’t work nearly as well as it used to, but I’ve been stubborn to not increase the dose, even though I know I’d get even more benefit if I did, because I know the consequences. I don’t like that I take this, but it’s been keeping me going for the last 6 months. I hope the wean off in the near future isn’t awful. We have had quite a few members wean off low dose benzos successfully as their tinnitus, hyperacusis, and/or mental state have improved, others have experienced trouble or awful worsening. Your brain will react how it will, so it is good to keep all parameters in mind when in discussion with a GP or ENT.

2) There is so much hate in this world, what we need more is grace. Grace and empathy. I wouldn’t want anyone here to end their lives, but I absolutely have empathy and understand how you have gotten to those thoughts and I wish I could hug anyone who has been terrified of these thoughts, as I have been there myself. So, instead of a “it would be dumb to kill yourself” response approach, how about a simple “we understand and are here for you, please be aware of your options (medication, psychiatric treatment) before making that decision, and also know we are the closest we have ever been to a treatment that is showing GREAT promise for relief. Your life is valued and you have purpose outside of this condition, even though you cannot see it right now”.

3) I don’t think anyone means to compare, but I can see how it goes there out of frustration and what each of us view as realistic. So, just don’t. Don’t compare. We are all suffering, that’s all each of us need to know. So just support, give grace, and practice empathy.

Virtual hugs and love to all of you. After 3 1/2 years of infertility filled with natural loss, 5 egg retrievals, losing two healthy embryos, losing my right ovary in emergent surgery this past July, then getting an ear infection a month later that has landed me here, I can honestly say I would relive my 3 1/2 years of infertility in an instant over having this condition. So I get it, and I have the utmost empathy and respect for all of us just fighting to live another day.

 

Come on chaps, life is already horrible for a lot of us - can't we put aside our differences in mutual acceptance and support of each other (even those we disagree with)?

 

Can you chill for a second, tatted bro? I only answered that way because he said he gives a "flying fuck" about silence and referred to my suicidal thoughts as dumb. I too have a family and I too do it for them. I asked for advice because he said he's taking benzos too and since I'm doing the same thing, maybe what he has to say could help. On the other hand, someone calling me lunatic didn't help at all, so congratulations.

Yes, that's what scares me as well. I'm doing a benzo tapering and my tinnitus is definitely worsening. The idea is to continue with the taper still, to allow for GABA receptors to upregulate, but even then, I don't know how my body might respond. If it does get to a catastrophic point, then I guess I WILL have to take benzos for the rest of my life and that will be it.

The slow tapering is already proving to be awful since I lose sleep time, quality of sleep decreases and loudness of my tinnitus increases. The things that used to mask it, maybe a month ago, don't mask it anymore. So I'm a bit doubtful but then again, these things need to be given time and sometimes when I'm in a panic, I tend to lose patience...

 

My opinion isn't popular here but I really don't care. If your tinnitus is mild to moderate or you think you can cope with your tinnitus without the benzo, crossover to Valium and get off now while you're ahead.

Klonopin took my "sound of air" tinnitus to the most horrific thing you could possibly imagine.

 

This is my plan with my psychiatrist soon. Cross over to Valium and wean from there. I am hoping the fact that I’m regularly at 0.25 mg and never went above 0.5 mg in a 24 hour period, I don’t experience hell. I have reactivity so we shall see.