Sound Pharmaceuticals (SPI-5557 & SPI-1005)

Discussion in 'Research News' started by joe, Jan 26, 2012.

    1. __nico__
      No Mood

      __nico__ Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      chemo/barotrauma/noise/autoimmune disorder
      How do I do this? Help would be greatly appreciated. If this is implying I could literally get Ebselen, you are quite literally saving my life and I wish I could cure all of you.
      Shit... I'm in the US. Maybe I could have one of my European friends deliver it to me.
       
    2. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Your doctor applies for you (they should know the process) and contacts the company.

      More here:

      Wikipedia: Expanded Access

      I don't know how long that takes, though, could be a few months and the company doesn't have to say yes but this is the safest and best option by far.

      If it is literally life or death in an immediate sense, these labs (below) came up on a simple Google search but there are probably at least 100 in the US alone. **I cannot vouch for any of these labs or if they are of the purity and formulation to achieve the same safety or even penetrance/effectiveness. This is extremely risky, so imo this should be reserved as a last ditch for people who would otherwise take their life. If anyone goes this route, I would very strongly also recommend finding an outside lab (maybe at a university toxicology department?) to test a sample first for purity:

      https://www.caymanchem.com/product/70530/ebselen

      https://us.vwr.com/store/category/ebselen/10586598

      https://www.tocris.com/products/ebselen_5245

      https://www.alfa-chemistry.com/ebselen-cas-60940-34-3-item-284902.htm

      https://focusbiomolecules.com/ebselen-glutathione-peroxidase-mimic/

      Etc etc etc.

      All of these say "for research purposes only" and they probably vary in how they check for this. It's possible they check for lab credentials. It's also possible they go on the honor system. I really don't know. You may have to find someone affiliated with a lab to order this or turn to the dark web where anything synthesized in a lab is available (I do not know how to do this personally).
       
    3. Marin
      Depressed

      Marin Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      6/18/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      SSNHL... probably previous noise exposure, too
      I’ve asked my doctor, but he was pretty pessimistic about it. I’m going to keep asking, though.
       
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    4. weab00
      Gloomy

      weab00 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Joe Dart's basement
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      some good mf music
      That is insanely expensive though, about $1900 daily for the required 200 mg dosing — unless you have $13,300 to burn weekly.

      Science.bio was our best bet selling Ebselen for $60/g or just $12/day, but they don't plan on restocking any time soon.

      I've yet to find a source that isn't either selling for $200+/gram or to research labs only.

      I've compiled a list of every vendor I could find online. Alibaba is by far the cheapest.

      Maybe someone could take one for the team and buy a gram from them & get it tested:

      https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/buy-98-powder-CAS-60940-34_60759100921.html
      $24.5/100 mg; $49/day (cheapest but also Chinese lab)

      https://www.chemdirect.com/ebselen-1x5mg-v1941-5mg.html
      $460/100 mg; $920/day

      https://www.medchemexpress.com/Ebselen.html
      $288/100 mg; $576/day

      https://in.carbanio.com/chemical/ebselen-60940-34-3-ch-o57lu6h
      $176/100 mg; $352/day

      https://www.tocris.com/products/ebselen_5245
      $714/100 mg; $1428/day

      https://www.invivochem.com/ebselen.html
      $150/100 mg (cheapest American one); $300/day

      https://www.selleckchem.com/products/ebselen.html
      $788/100 mg; $1576/day

      https://www.stressmarq.com/products/small-molecules/inhibitor/ebselen-sih-204/
      $228/100 mg; $456/day

      https://www.enzolifesciences.com/ALX-270-097/ebselen/
      $316/100 mg; $632/day

      https://www.adooq.com/ebselen.html
      $460/100 mg; $920/day

      https://www.bioshopcanada.com/secure/detail.asp?offset=420&Pin=EBS270
      $500/100 mg; $1000/day

      https://www.antibodies-online.com/inhibitor/1304132/Ebselen/
      $900/100 mg; $1800/day
       
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    5. Aaron91
      Jaded

      Aaron91 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music/headphones/concerts - Hyperacusis from motorbike
      @weab00 doing God's work.

      Also worth noting that that 200mg was the low-dose version of the SPI clinical trials. Their results, for Meniere's at least, were better when taken at 400mg, if I remember correctly - 95% improvement relative to placebo (200mg saw 65% improvement). Value for money though perhaps doesn't work out to take higher dose - twice the money and only 30% more benefit. I have no science to back this but perhaps some middle ground of 300mg a day could be a happy middle ground.

      Also @__nico__ if you do go for this, make sure to look into how you're supposed to take it because I don't think any of these labs deliver it in a form that's ready to take orally.

      Edit: and those results were I believe for a 21 or 28 day course. A week might not do anything.
       
    6. weab00
      Gloomy

      weab00 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Joe Dart's basement
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      some good mf music
      21 .
      28 days at high dose 400 mg will set you back $2700. Which I guess is not too bad in the grand scheme of things if it could effectively cure hyperacusis, but that's not a guarantee.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    7. __nico__
      No Mood

      __nico__ Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      chemo/barotrauma/noise/autoimmune disorder
      How does one take it orally? It's a powder, right? What would I have to dissolve it in?
       
    8. xyz
      Alienated

      xyz Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      2006 mild T 2019 T worsening H onset
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown / probably noise induced
      When I check Sound Pharmaceuticals' product pipeline, the first study they link to is this one, which started in September 2011.

      Nearly 10 years later and it still isn't possible to say if Ebselen is something good for the ear?

      Probably if it's safe, they should just release it, and let this board here decide if they should proceed with their efforts.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    9. Ela Stefan

      Ela Stefan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear Infection
      I found a lab here in Germany to make Ebselen for me.
       
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    10. L34

      L34 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      June 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, but little dip at 7000 Hz
      Interesting... I have read your other posts, and must say, I am really sorry for you to be in this crap situation.

      I would like to hear more of how it turns out and if you decide to try the Ebselen.
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
    11. weab00
      Gloomy

      weab00 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Joe Dart's basement
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      some good mf music
      Definitely keep us updated. Everyone here is dying to know how Ebselen affects tinnitus.

      Do you happen to have hyperacusis and visual snow syndrome as well?

      Also, how much is the lab charging you if you don't mind me asking?
       
    12. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I just want to chime in that "how much it affects tinnitus" is going to be very dependent on how much in each individual is inflammatory or neuro-excitatory. This shouldn't help with synapse loss or hair cell loss, for instance if there isn't also a larger inflammatory component.

      Acutely, it should help almost anyone, chronically will vary quite a bit in my opinion and will be highly individual.

      But the more stories we get with clinical history, it should help figure it out.
       
      • Informative Informative x 2
    13. Aaron91
      Jaded

      Aaron91 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music/headphones/concerts - Hyperacusis from motorbike
      I'm not sure, to be honest, but I remember someone on here posting previously about needing DMSO to take it. If you go on this lab's page and look at the solvent & solubility table, you will find the following for in vivo administration, which would seem to be consistent:
      • 1. Add each solvent one by one: 10% DMSO 40% PEG300 5% Tween-80 45% saline

        Solubility: ≥ 2.5 mg/mL (9.12 mM); Clear solution

      • 2. Add each solvent one by one: 10% DMSO 90% corn oil

        Solubility: ≥ 2.5 mg/mL (9.12 mM); Clear solution
      It does then say in small sprint that that lab provides the solvents.

      I still don't know whether this is how it should be taken though. Might be an idea to get in contact with someone who knows the answer to this.
       
    14. Diesel

      Diesel Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      1-2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      20+ Years of Live Music, Motorcycles, and Power Tools
      I’d like to go on the record that trying to secure this stuff on the market and then consume it based on a “back of the napkin” dosage schedule seems like a terrible idea.

      With that out of the way, I’d highly encourage a scientific, or near-scientific, method be used to determine if this stuff creates the desired effect.

      For example:
      - Establish a tinnitus “baseline” completing the TFI a few weeks prior to beginning the regimen.

      - Establishing a hyperacusis baseline by completing a hyperacusis assessment.

      - Establishing any other basic hearing handicap baseline.

      - Retaking the tests in specific intervals after the drugs has been consumed. IE: at 30-days, 60, 90.
       
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    15. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      I'm still curious to the extent reactivity could be inflammation-related, if this could help those of us spiking from daily noise. Only time will tell.
       
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    16. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I think reactivity is among the most promising indications for drugs like this personally.
       
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    17. ASilverLight
      In pain

      ASilverLight Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably noise, stress and a neck injury.
      If this is true I could largely go back to a semi normal life (while taking good care of my hearing of course). My baseline is annoying but not life disabling. The reactivity however, very much is.
       
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    18. weab00
      Gloomy

      weab00 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Joe Dart's basement
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      some good mf music
      Someone told me they had an online friend with loudness hyperacusis who ordered a 28 day supply of Ebselen and has already seen significant improvements after 3 days.
       
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    19. Born To Slay
      Depressed

      Born To Slay Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert
      Damn, but only loudness hyperacusis?
       
    20. Lucifer

      Lucifer Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Hell
      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear Infection
      I would like to know if it was a temporary or permanent solution after their 28 day supply of Ebselen runs out.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    21. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      Would be cool if they could articulate in greater detail, but any positive news is welcome : )
       
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    22. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I firmly believe if this does help noxacusis it will take a long time for the pain fibers to become desensitized again. There won't be an instant result imo for whatever does end up helping, if this is one of those things.

      Things that are the direct result of neuroexcitability by itself (reactivity, loudness hyperacusis) should see quicker results.
       
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    23. __nico__
      No Mood

      __nico__ Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      chemo/barotrauma/noise/autoimmune disorder
      I need to know more about this. As far as I know, it isn't delivered in a form that can be taken orally.

      Could you or your friend articulate more?
       
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    24. Aaron91
      Jaded

      Aaron91 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music/headphones/concerts - Hyperacusis from motorbike
      For the sake of many of us who are or who have been on the brink with this condition, could you please try to persuade this person to make an account of their experience with Ebselen so far somewhere on Tinnitus Talk? It would be great to hear it from the horse's mouth and for us to be able to ask questions.
       
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    25. Diesel

      Diesel Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      1-2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      20+ Years of Live Music, Motorcycles, and Power Tools
      If they do... Have them create some kind of "data diary" of their experience. We need to understand to what extent it has helped them, how long it lasts, how fast they notice the effects etc...

      "It seems to help me" doesn't cut it for me personally.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
    26. weab00
      Gloomy

      weab00 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Joe Dart's basement
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      some good mf music
      I do not know this person, the stranger who contacted me would have to do that. But they still haven't responded to his initial questions which is weird.
       
    27. vermillion
      Whistles

      vermillion Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Possibly from Fluconazole / H + Dysacusis later on
      @weab00, have you happened to track down an Ebselen vendor in the EU?

      From what I read while trying to follow the discussion here, it seems kind of tricky to get that compound in a form that could be taken orally.

      It seems too complicated for me to manage and get it on hand?

      Has anybody achieved that here on the forum?
       
    28. xyz
      Alienated

      xyz Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      2006 mild T 2019 T worsening H onset
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown / probably noise induced
      Probably if somebody has anecdotal cases on hyperacusis vanishing after Ebselen treatment, it is Sound Pharmaceuticals as they have had Ebselen in clinical trials for hearing conditions for nearly ten years.

      Has someone maybe got a contact at Sound Pharmaceuticals?
       
    29. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      As far as I know, it's only been in pre-clinical and trials for Meniere's. Not sure how common hyperacusis is in that population.
       
    30. xyz
      Alienated

      xyz Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      2006 mild T 2019 T worsening H onset
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown / probably noise induced
      I had just seen this Phase II trial which started in 2011.
       
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